Presidential Election 2018 Poll


#61

The reason that I’d vote for Micky D is that he’s essentially apolitical, which I think befits the position. His occasional lefty outburst is really just compassionate waffle, and I’m OK with that.

The others are just a bunch of losers and lunatics attracting losers and lunatics to vote for them.


#62

Attracting Losers and lunatics and…?

Or is that the full list?


#63

Irish politics is depressingly vacuous.


#64

And therein lies the problem.


#65

See there’s no “hypocrisy in play” with normal people. Normal people do not engage in in-group thinking about their scumbag elements. We wholly accept that there are scumbags in our midst.

This is in contrast with the in-group thinking that the likes of Pavee Point engaged in around the time of the Nally case. ‘No justice for Travellers ! You can shoot a traveller and get away with it!’ They went in to bat for Ward. Astonishing stuff.

You believe that Nally shouldn’t be in jail. But it was clear at the time that Traveller advocate groups think he should be in jail to this day.

The fact of the matter was that Ward was shot because he was a scumbag, not because he was a Traveller. Now their Travellerness gave their opponent a heads up that in the words of the judge they were “up to no good” i.e. scumbags. Because the fact is that finding two younger traveller-looking and traveller-sounding men walking through your house means in any man’s language there’s a crime going on and they’re scumbags. That fact may annoy the Traveller advocates but it’s a fact nonetheless. A Mormon would have been fine.

Being Irish doesn’t mean you’re engaged in terrorism. But let’s say you and your 3 young fit friends decided to visit Gibraltar and raised suspicion. I never understood the hysteria about that shooting. It was a war. Get on with it.


#66

Not too many agreeing with me here by looks of it but I thought Joan Freeman came across as genuine and honest anytime I heard her speak. What she’s achieved with Pieta House shows the dragons up for the selfish muppets they are. Sad state of affairs that the most talked about aspect of campaign is as result of cluelessness of Casey “cause I only just moved back to the country.” The whole anti-pc v righteousness debate seems to blind and polarize people. It’s divisive crap. Ultimately I think it would be good to recognise the good and decent rather than those pandering to either side of that pile of manure.


#67

Your problem seems to be with an advocacy group for travellers but not with travellers themselves.

Fine. Point made.

Shouldn’t Casey have turned on Pavee point then rather than going to Thurles. Is that where Pavee Point is based?


#68

He went to Thurles for the photo op. He invited Martin Collins to meet him there and discuss. That didn’t happen.

Pavee Point went into bat on Thurles too. It’s not on the level of astonishing as going in to bat in for Ward. Their indeological dogmatic and mad nature is shown by the inflexibility of their position on Thurles and their unwillingness to defend it against Casey’s trenchant views (rather than RTE’s softly softly interviewers)

I said before that if this row trundled on Saint Mary Robinson would weigh in. Actually it was Saint Leo who tried to shut it down. Pavee Point etc urgently need this story to go away. Because stories like Thurles will show the game is up (for their victimhood scrounging)


#69

It really says a lot about the poverty of Irish public life when a guy who nobody ever heard of until last week is running second in line to be President on the back of a few not that controversial statements about entitlement and Travellers.

When is the last time that somebody recognisable to the majority held any sway within the body politic? By recognisable, I mean someone who most people would feel themselves capable of holding a conversation with? Bertie Ahern perhaps? Maybe Cowen.

Ultimately those fools are responsible for the vaccum of agreeably bland, personality-absent, stand for nothingness that seems to be the norm these days. They fucked up the best opportunity Ireland ever had to get its house in order and ushered in the current era of Europhile shoneenism.

In the grand Irish tradition, we will preumably continue to adopt trends from elsewhere long after they have ceased to be relevant. Currently, we appear to be in something resembling a 70s Liberalism (with a dash of New labour PR) mode at a time when such a world view is in retreat almost everywhere else. Of course, when such an approach was actually progressive in the real sense, we were on our knees praying, having adopted and retained a version of hardcore fundamentalist Christianity long after it had been abandoned eveyrwhere else.

Its possible that over the next few decades we’ll find ourselves in strangely familiar territory being the last bastion of progresive liberalism cast adrift from an increasngly populist Europe. We’ll even have a geriatric in the Phoenix park who’ll claim to know what the Irish people want simply by looking into his heart…and the high priestesses will cackle in approval…post-Populism it will be noted that, just like the Christian monks of old, Irish liberals kept the doctrines of identity politics and intersectionality alive during a time when all of Europe had been plunged into a Kurtz-like heart of darkness. Young European backpackers will come to hang out and observe a uniquely ancient culture with its roots in 20th century post-modernism (that has long since disappeared elsewhere in Europe) where men may get pregnant and women have penises.


#70

‘Deplorables’ if you will!


#71

Just to add with a bit more seriousness, Casey has definitely succeeded in highlighting what are seriously problematic aspects of the ideology that underpins both intersectionalism and identity politics to which all mainstream poiticos current appear to subscribe.

What I mean by that is that the ideologies themselves promote (pretty succesfully) the idea that group membership is more important than any idividual identity a person carves out for themselves. It was adopted by many on the left as a means of attacking what were viewed as pre-existing hierarchies such that, in the US initially and across the rest of the wesetrn world subsequently, the white male was elevated to oppressor status across the board. Within this paradigm any conflict/difference of opinion between a member of the white male category and a member of another group lower down the perceived social hierarchy, was/is in actuality a power conflict between the broader groupings…and this applies to every interaction involving all persons (not just white males) as according to the same ideology everyone (as part of a group) exists somewhere along the spectrum of hierarchy/victimhood. This proved quite useful for them when punching upward so to speak, and would be very much part of the playbook that groups such as Pavee Point would have employed over the past few years with a view to playing up the victim aspect associated with the Traveller identity.

However, problems arise when, as in the case of travellers, members of the group engage in serious criminality (as an example), especially of the sort that violently targets vulnerable people. Its quite clear that Travellers are disproportionately involved in such crimes and your defence of ‘not all travellers’ rings somewhat hollow when you have been, to that point, playing the blanket identity aspect in the opposite direction claiming victim status or associating everyone of a particular gender or race with blanket responsibility for historical crimes etc. In other words, if all white males are somehow responsible (on some level) for slavery, then all travellers are resposible (on some level) from rural burglaries.

Casey has, perhaps unwittingly, highlighted this this broader development in his comments related to Travellers. However, its not limited to them. Remember, during the 1980s when the conflict in the North was at its height? The reasonable perspective that we were all conditioned to accept was that some Brits were bad ie SAS/Loyalist Death Squads etc but quite clearly, the majority of English/British people are not like that. The message was always to pull back from such extremism because of where it inevitably leads. However, nowadays, in keeping with the broader fixation on identity politics such moderation appears to be in retreat. The following appeared in the New York Times last week, written presumably by a middle class Irish woman seeking to use Brexit as a means to hop on board the identity victim train under a headline “I didnt hate the English - until now”

nytimes.com/2018/10/18/opin … rexit.html

Casey’s comments, whether intentionally or not, appeal to an individuality that appears to have been lacking of late ie that everyone is equal before the law and that membership of a group is less important than your actions as an individual. Thats supposed to be the basic premise of post-enlightenment western thought. Im guessing that at least some people who are supporting him understand this instinctively and oppose the politics of identity on the same basis. Hes simply been the one to articulate something that many people feel, but for whom there has as of yet been zero political or mainstream cultural representation. Thats reason enough to give him a vote in what is an otherwise meaningless vanity contest.


#72

@PTG great posts.


#73

Epic post. Set me up for the day :laughing:


#74

Ironically Ireland I believe is the one country in Europe that’s never had a centre Left government in the last century!


#75

Turnout reported to be very low so far. Will this have an impact? My gut is a low turnout favours Casey, particular if the turnout in rural areas is in anyway significantly higher.


#76

Turnout forecast <50%
Handy that Casey is top of ballot paper


#77

:unamused:


#78

Casey has a very international background, having been successful in Australia and the USA, he appears relatively mild. It will be very difficult to off load Higgins and Sabina, they never put a foot wrong and did some service to the Nation. Casey being first on the ballot paper will improve his chances that extra 5 per cent of undecided voters.


#79

Indeed.

"It really says a lot about the poverty of Irish public life " At the reception in Dublin castle when Pope Francis visited Dublin 2 months ago, I looked at the attendees all drawn from the good and the mighty and saw all former taoisigh, presidents, ministers and (QUA)NGO hangers on, and thought that not one of them could hold their head up high and for whom I would vote for president, nevermind me campaigning for any of them to be president.


#80

Just back from voting, fairly busy with end of work visits.