protected professions


#161

Government to ease restrictions on extra EU doctors to moderate the junior doctor shortage.

irishexaminer.com/ireland/dail-to-rush-law-on-junior-doctors-158599.html

Gerry Adams is concerned for patient safety. :unamused:


#162

the Plank gave O’Reilly 40 minutes of media blowjob ( an easy ride if ever I saw one ) on Monday night to talk through that shite.

O’Reilly has wrecked the only working bit of the health service ( the NTPF ) because it’s an IMO shibboleth to do so.


#163

Interesting data. It would be more interesting to look at numbers of doctors graduating relative to the population. We export an awful lot of doctors.

Watch the recent frontline episode. It is a problem retaining hospital doctors not producing them. 75% of the 5,000 current non consultant hospital doctors will leave Ireland due to a lack of long term prospects. This has been going on for years.

Spot on.


#164

Problem is not at junior level. Problem is at consultant level.
Simple maths-salary of one consultant is inversely proportional to no of consultants any health system can hire. We give almost double what they get in UK means we can afford almost half no of consultants that makes very few opportunities for junior doctors.
So, they leave the system and move on. Includes both Irish and overseas doctors.


#165

Starting consulant salary based on the contracts that are actually being offered.

Ireland ~€150k, after tax €5,816/month
add 20% for private work, supposedly restricted

U.K. ~£80k, after tax £4,417.41 (€4,950.83)
no restriction in private work (NHS functions better so less demand for private healthcare)

factor in that it’s a lot cheaper to live in the U.K.

Edit:

I’m not clear in my head what they should be paid. Obviously we can’t afford anything for the forseeable future. We are going to have a very tough time preventing braindrain to the UK and USA


#166

I don’t understand the “after tax” bit above: surely €150,000, after tax would be around the €80,000, not €5816? :question: ?


#167

Sorry doubleglaze that’s take home monthly pay


#168

and this is a low income tax country 8-


#169

I have to query your figures for Ireland.

Taxable Income €150,000.00
PAYE - Standard Rate €6,560.00
PAYE - Top Rate €48,052.00
Total Tax Bourne €54,612.00
Tax Credits €3,300.00
PAYE Payable €51,312.00
PRSI €5,735.84
Universal Service Charge €9,818.80
Total Payable €66,866.64
Net Salary €83,133.36
Net Monthly €6,927.78

I accept that this does not include any pension deduction, but neither does your UK figure. Do UK consultants have to make any pension contribution?

The comparison needs to be apples and apples.

Also bear in mind, the UK is solvent (only barely, but solvent), Ireland is not.

independent.ie/health/150000-pay-puts-hospital-consultants-on-top-of-world-229928.html

Maybe we should be comparing the pay relative to the average wage or average industrial wage.

Finally, is it reasonable for every doctor to expect that the opportunity to become a consultant will be afforded to them. Surely, it should only be the best and most competent who are selected for progression and elevation. If others who want to follow the consultancy route, then seeking training opportunities elsewhere is appropriate.

My experience has been those foreign trained consultants who return to Ireland have acted as agitants for change and facilitate the dissemination of new methods of practice.


#170

It is reasonable to expect such an opportunity if we think of consultants as part of the health care team rather than a feudal priesthood and adjust their compensation accordingly. In Canada, nearly all doctors make it through specialty training. I would like to see ample opportunities to change specialty given that some residents find they are unsuited to the one they chose - it’s harder to switch over here. BTW, in North America, family practice is a specialty too.

Experience abroad is of value in any line of work but I think too much emphasis is put on the Been To America factor for doctors e.g. when Tom Keane got the cancer job and an oncologist over there was reported (admittedly in the Indo) as wondering whether Vancouver stacked up with the top US centres.

I would also like to see separation of public and private care. The private side should have its own doctors and should be entirely self-financing.


#171

Absolutely.

Absolutely on that too. I think the UK would be a more appropriate training ground, given some of the reforms that have taken place and perhaps the Netherlands too?

+1 again. Not only should it be self-financing, but it should have its own consultants that it trains. I’d add an income levy to doctor graduates, exempted if they are working in the public service. Mind you, I’d add an income levy, as opposed to fees, to almost all university courses, postgrad, etc.


#172

The distinction between GPs and consultants is arbitrary. GPs are specialists as well.


#173

One way to start addressing the junior doctor shortage. There will have to be some way of enforcing this, though, maybe through the Medical Council?

Getting tough with future employees is safe enough. I’d like to see more stick used on the
upper end of the food chain and more carrot down below e.g. real career prospects.


#174

Just read in the SBP about a barrister for the HSE earning 968k in 2010. I mean WTF - surely some other legal person would do this for half the price? I won’t even begin to calculate the hourly rate…


#175

Well with 8760 hours in the year that would be 110 euro per hour, every hour of the year.


#176

He must have been on call then. :angry:


#177

#178

To the tune of Amadeus:
Over pay us, over pay us…


#179

Back in the real world…

If anybody wants an insight into the morale and conditions of Irish hospital doctors have a read through this and the comments that follow. As someone who has been through the system it makes for very sad reading.

medicalindependent.ie/blog-p … k#comments

I predict an exodus over the coming years. Chatting with a few consultants they will not be far behind their juniors.


#180

That was a very moving article particularly the comments section. I’m quite disturbed after reading this but it echoes a lot of the mood I pick up in the profession right now.

I’d urge everyone to click on the above link and take the time to read through the comments section.