Public Service Costs - The Elephant in the Room


Quality of life, is a different argument altogether. You started down the road of comparing salaries. I continued down that road.

The calculation of the gross payroll is important to the employer. Calculation of gross pay less tax is important to the employee. The calculation of the % of gross payroll that ends up as net pay is meaningless to either.

You framed your calculation as a trivial 1% difference, and assuming your calcs are correct, it’s not; it’s a €7,400 difference.


Well I pay private insurance in a dual system that appears to work and my informant previously had a view of how much the hospitals (many more than a few)simply couldn’t be bothered collecting from health insurers.


The distinction between employer and employee taxes is irrelevant, they’re both taxes on labour.

A consultant on net pay of X costs the NHS and the HSE almost exactly the same amount.


Employees care about total net remuneration; i.e. net pay + pension contributions (employer contributions + affordability of employee contributions through tax relief) + other benefits with monetary value, generally in that order.

As a personal example, I care more abut a larger level of employer’s pension contribution or generous relief on AVCs than a small gross pay rise or marginal income tax rate reduction, I’m only slightly interested in a level of employer-funded health insurance above what I’d be prepared to fund myself and I don’t give a hoot about free gym membership.


I believe employers PRSI in Ireland is 10.75%


There are 3 public hospitals in Cork city (4 if you count CUH and the Maternity hospital separately), along with the Bon Secours and the Mater Private. For a city of 120,000. Ludicrous.


They are both taxes on labour, you’re correct. That is the view looking at it from an employer’s perspective though.

But you did your calculation in the context of the pay scale need to attract someone to a job.

If I’m an employee looking at a job offer in two different jurisdictions, I’ll do a quick calculation based on the gross pay figure offered to me, and the current tax regime and see what my net pay will be in each. That’ll inform my decision greatly.

Suppose then the UK signals that employer’s NI is to be doubled, and at the same time in ROI, income tax is to jump by 10%. In the UK scenario, I’m not affected (obviously my potential employer is furious), but the bottom line for me essentially doesn’t change. UK isn’t any less attractive as an employment destination, while the ROI tax change would affect my take home pay significantly.

I’d be surprised if there’s more than 1 in 100 employees that even consider employer’s PRSI as a factor in their pay. It’s actually a fairly insidious tax as most employees just blithely assume that the tax they pay on their job is simply the difference between gross pay and net pay.


Life takes many a strange turn. Thirty years ago, if you’d told me that around about now I’d be envying Liam Cosgrave’s pension I would have nodded and backed away slowly. At least he gave some of it back.


Civil servants had their working hours increased unilaterally by 2 hours per week in 2013.

This will easily lead to an order of magnitude more time at the office than will be lost from this bereavement leave arrangement.


Do you honestly think civil servants now spend and extra 120 minutes per week in the office?

It extremely easy to fudge 24 minutes per day (“I took a short lunch”). Not so easy when it comes to blocks of a day at a time.


#1895 … -1.3020164

worth watching the video to get the full sense of entitlement :unamused:


““I don’t know of another job in Ireland that does not get a long-serving increment and I believe it was illegal to remove that.’’”

Holy shitballs, that statement is astonishing.

These bastards need to do a compulsory work placement in Tesco for six months.


That’s 30 productive years, imagine he hadn’t been there for all that time. Think of all the stuff that wouldn’t have got done.


All the time drawing sick pay from trinity.

Anyway Irish people were given the opportunity to get rid of the Senate in the last dail and decided not to in their wisdom


it was a very gentlemanly place, with people drifting in and out, and he had been blamed for pushing it in the direction of a full-time professional job.
Senators are paid €65,000 annually.


My accountant tells me there is little prospect of paying myself a ‘long serving increment’ regardless of Norris’s law or my sense of entitlement.


So Norris want a self-of-entitlement allowance just because he’s worth it and because he earns a mere €65,000 for three days work, if that, a week, 7 months a year.

Maybe it is time to see the full picture, such as: … y-1.884724

Yes David your arithmetic is not good because it is over €3,200 a month.

And then there us the hidden leader’s allwance of €21,045 a year. … 9-Jan2012/ … Report.pdf - see table 5 … en2015.pdf

This amounted to €29,077 in 2015 including €8,032 carried forward from 2014

David, you may not be so good at arithmetic so I’ll give you a hand.

So this is a more accurate of the picture

€38,000 - Lecturer’s pension, despite being allegedly disabled and still holding down a role as a public representative that is so burdensome you need a long service increment

€65,000 - Senator’s salary

€8,250 - unvouched expenses annually

€21,045 - leader’s allowance

That is a mere €132,295.

And then there is your statement of interest: … estsSeanadÉireannJanDec2015.pdf

You state that you are a landslord of 18A North Great Georges Street, Dublin 1 but there is no statement of income.

The basement was rented to a company called Zheeler Limited up to the middle of 2016. How much income does this generate?

And then there is your speaking engagement: … t.918.html … t.190.html

This does not appear in your statement of interest. You do speak:

How much income does this generate?

And then there is you sideline in generating income from serial defamation suites.

And let’s not even mention your dealings over the same of the Hirschfeld Centre premises.

So how much does all that add up to?

Any you still want your sense of entitlement increment?

I have no problem with people working hard and earning lots of money. I do have a problem with a smug has-been without any sense of irony demanding tax payers’ money just because you have stuck around to a point where you are utterly irrelevant and pointless.


Christ almighty. Good post ChickenP.



What possessed people to keep the Seanad is beyond me, this is the sort of dross it helps to encourage and prop up.