Putin, Russia and the West


#861

Well you have a point, there is north korea and a few others. The US prefers drones.
But even the US has allowed the biggest ‘traitors’ just serve prison time.


#862

This might be a huge mistake. By emphasising that the threat remains, Russia puts itself back at the centre of NATO concerns. It also adds extra spice to the US investigations of collusion. Russia has firmly placed itself back as “the enemy”.

It’s such a misstep that it would make you think it is a black op, except Russia is now a closed dictatorship, and like any organisation that doesn’t allow dissenting views, will be increasingly prone to actions that make internal logic to the cabal, but have huge externalities. (e.g. the cabal can’t understand that collateral damage to citizens will cause outrage, so the cabal discounts that as a risk).


#863

The Russians want peace and co operation with the west, its the idiot elite that wants conflict with Russia and any country that won’t toe the line, you need to stop believing what passes for news in the MSM


#864

And you need to stop watching RT :laughing:

Honestly, you know little of how dictatorships work. Read up on Sonderweg:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-Ulrich_Wehler
What applied to Germany prior to WW2, applies to Russia still:

It’s practically a blueprint for what Putin and his ‘aristocracy’ are doing. Primat der innenpolitik!


#865

bbc.com/news/world-europe-43461719

That was quick! I salute your powers of predection!


#866

I don’t watch very much news on television any more, it could be well over a year since I gave a passing glance at RT, as far as I can see the only journalist in Ireland or the UK saying anything sensible about Russia is Peter Hitchens, but of course he must be on the Kremlin payroll

I don’t think its a dictatorship, this will be Putins last term and he may not even serve it in full


#867

As I say, I don’t think you understand how elected dictatorships work.


#868

I don’t know how you could describe it as anything other than a dictatorship!


#869

While the Russian man in the street may well want peace and cooperation, all their mass media is big into scaremongering. My Russian friends firmly believe that the West is itching to invade Kalliningrad. I suspect the Russian “Idiot elite” has a lot to answer for in this regard.


#870

independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-tennis-russian-billionaire-putin-minister-tory-donation-a8261871.html

Boris Johnson has defended playing a game of tennis with the wife of one of Vladimir Putin’s ex-ministers in return for a £160,000 donation to the Conservatives.

Mr Johnson confirmed that the game, paid for by Lubov Chernukhin at a Tory fundraiser last year, has now taken place.

Ms Chernukhin has also since paid £30,000 to have dinner with Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson, who made waves last week when he told Russia to “go away and shut up” in the wake of the Salisbury nerve agent attack.


#871

But the Russian “idiot elite” makes moves that are logical and make strategic sense, the western “idiot elite” can’t really do the same, it adds up to an advantage for the Russians in the long term


#872

Do you really think the Russians are better led than we are? :open_mouth:


#873

Stay out of it you absolute clown. Ireland is completely insignificant on the world stage.

independent.ie/irish-news/p … 35761.html


#874

I think that Fine Gael is using this crisis as part of its strategy of integrating Ireland into EU and NATO defence policy. It’s typical Leo opportunism.

At the end of the day the origin of this crisis is an MI6 spy game. And Ireland is now posturing to allow MI6 intelligence assets/traitors to live in peace and in full view. It’s madness.


#875

That’s a twisted interpretation. If Skripal had just been assassinated by conventional means there would have been a furore but nothing on the scale that we are currently seeing. It is the repeat use of chemical weapons, careless of the innocent lives that can be lost, that is the really driving the reaction.


#876

Russia’s massive new embassy has raised plenty eyebrows on Harcourt St. There’s no legitimate explaination for it.


#877

I’ve been inside it on a couple of occasions; the compound, not the main building. All the mundane bureaucratic stuff that Russian citizens in Ireland need to do (renewing passports, registering births, getting documents legalised etc.) was taking place in a warren of prefabs behind the main building. If they are going to replace those with proper offices then I think that’s a good thing. I don’t doubt that activities that can fall under the heading of espionage go on there but I don’t think you can make a direct link between that and the size of the premises. They have a large site and a tendency, more so than for some other countries, for embassy staff to live on site and do much of their relaxation there as well as there work. In that sense it’s logical to use the available space to build and accommodate it.


#878

You’re just swallowing the narrative. If it had been a straightforward assassination that would have been the elimimation of an intelligence asset/traitor - something Ireland should have absolutely no reason to comment on. It’s spy game stuff. The Russians chose a reckless method of killing - it’s a WMD attack on British soil. The British chose a reckless method of unconcealed resettlement of their double agent. There’s no reason for Ireland to involve itself. If we had any power under EU law to direct MI6 maybe I could see some logic. But we don’t.

The British are pissed off because their cosy truce about leaving swapped defectors alone has been breached. It harms the likelihood of further double agents. But they won’t say this.


#879

I’ll take your word for that; I do know of Russian intel ops working in Ireland and making contact with an acquaintance - it was reported in the mainstream media and I would have been sceptical of the report until I had it confirmed from the horse’s mouth


#880

And with all that, theres still no confirmation of what was used beyond ‘an agent of a type developed by Russia’.

The bods at Porton Down wont put their names to anything stronger because 1. they cant prove it and/or 2. they dont want to be hauled before a commons committee in 10 years and questioned about sexing up documents as a pretext to war.

Theres a whole panoply of shite going around about facebook/Russia/WMD/Corbynite anti-semitism all with one common factor- The Tories.
If I were a cynical git it’d put me in mind of the Tories running Gerasimov Doctrine style operations ahead of the pending Local Elections in May 18.

If they were about to get slaughtered in the polls (which anecdotally is likely) then playing the ‘Jeremey-Corbyn-is-a-Russian-WMD-spraying-anti-jewish-Hacker’ would need a few months to set up.

If this goes badly, I think Israel will be the victim of any large scale retalation via Hezbollah proxies.
Failing that (and most likely) the perennial failure of Italy to get its electoral shit together presents an open door to Russian subterfuge.
Destabilising Italy would topple the whole EU.

Whatever happens we’re in for an ‘interesting’ few months.