Putting the Country 1st

Over the last 5 years Labour have been consistently criticised for putting the Party 1st and the country 2nd. Indeed they have been very harshly treated by the electorate last week for doing so.

At least Labour put the country 2nd whereas the severe reluctance of all the other parties to go into government clearly demonstrates that they wont put the good of the country anywhere on their list of priorities.

What is needed is more management and less politics

Are there any Statesmen or Women elected to the 32nd Dial ???

I thought they were critcised mainly for putting both ahead of their electoral base, which is why they were hammered in the election?

I can’t understand the short term memory of the electorate in this country.

FG/Labour inherit a €17.7bn budget deficit (end of 2011) - reduce it to 62m (0.062bn) by end of of 2015 and yet people go back to voting FF (who created the issue).

Yes there are health, water charges and housing issues but what did people expect off the back of a €17.7bn deficit?

They improved pretty much every economic metric in the interim.

The issue being they didn’t take populist choices like get rid of water charges, property tax or give away enough money in the last budget to buy the election (they should have went nuts it seems!).

We get what we deserve.

Citizens are suffering hugely as a result of that debt repayment.
Lower wages, housing costs, visible poverty, rural depopulation, rising cost of living, shambles in healthcare, rising crime rates, emigration…

I can, it emigrated.

The plan is working perfectly. 8- BD

And the alternative was to keep running a €17.7bn deficit a year? Honestly would you not expect consequences of having to close such a deficit?

  • Wages are higher at end of 2014 (and Q1 & Q2 2015) than end of 2011

  • Housing costs obviously going to increase as the economy prospers. Same with cost of living. The big issue does seem to be rental cost I’ll give you that.

  • Visibly poverty? Doesn’t every country have a degree of poverty. We’re no 3rd world country. I don’t see a huge change.

  • Don’t the WHO still rank us 17th worldwide on our health system?

  • Hasn’t emigration slowed down hugely - how long before we are looking at immigration?

I think you’re points are a bit of hyperbolic generalisation tbh.

Again I’d ask for an alternative/ what you expected?

And none of that explains why voters went back to FF who left the deficit behind.

20 seats in 2011 to mid 40’s in 2015 and it’s not like their economic plan was wildly different.

Perhaps they should have given 6bn away in the last budget and scrapped all the unpopular taxes or run huge budget deficits for much longer giving away houses and medical cards - screw the next generation.

It’s like the big debts of the bubble years, people couldn’t compute the big numbers but signed up based on the impact to their immediate wage.

those who ignore millennia of recorded history are living hand to mouth.

I’m confused you mean like RTE stars who can’t afford to pay their mortgages?

Ludicrous exaggeration. There is very little suffering in this country.

Also rural depopulation is not suffering.

So d’ordinary man goes and rewards the people who bankrupted the country in the first place, and a carnival side show of fools who think there is a bottomless pit of money to throw around!

Mixed messages from FG. They lost it for me when they tried to buy themselves back into power. They should have kept the head down and plugged away. “We’re not there yet” would have been a more reasonable slogan than keeping the recovery going. A recovery in economic metrics, at he end of the day is just numbers to people. Personally, I didn’t want the tax cuts in the last budgets and would rather we had no water charges but just renamed USC as water tax**. The looming presence of DoB in the background doesn’t help but IW was possibly the stray IMO.

They polled low for me personally but pride of place at the bottom of my polling card went to and will continue to go to FF for the foreseeable decades. I even gave a preference to a zealot who wanted to reverse the marriage equality referendum ahead of FF :smiley:

Putting the country 1st? Chance would be a fine thing. Of all the soundings so far the SDs and the Independents Alliance sound like the only ones that are currently not sidestepping in the interests of their own party.

**That’s a personal thing for me. I’d love if as much as possible went through Revenue but was earmarked in the paycheque as to where it is going. It’d be easier for people to budget in general and be nice to visibly see where your taxes are going. I’d rather that than have the months where the motor tax is due, the TV licence, water charges etc. They were able to do it with property tax.

“A lot done, a lot more to do”? :wink:

Oh yea. That didn’t work either did it? :blush:


Voted FG in 2011

My “faith” began to waver when I saw zero reform. The CGT exemption in budget 2013 appalled me. They lost my vote by extending it the following year. Noonan’s assertion that “we need to get property prices up another bit” merely justified my decision All this while 10s of thousands could get away scot free without paying debt and supply was deliberately strangled

On top of that we pretty much had the previous FF govt under the guise of FG/Labour. I voted against that govt in 2011 so refused to back this one in 2016. I don’t have a problem with water charges - I have a problem with how Irish Water was created, the D O’B links and the failure to sack Hogan (who’s department was also in charge of a property tax that only 50%ish of people paid until it was handed over to revenue). Then came the cynical last budget trying to buy votes and more pie in the sky promises during the GE campaign

I understand people voting for independents/SF/protest who are sick of FG (and before them FF). I get that.

What I can’t get my head around is the electorate giving FF 23 more seats (at present) compared to 2011 despite the fact FG & Labour have been largely sorting out the mess they left behind. I honestly just can’t comprehend it.

SF are on 8 extra seats (at present) despite the right2change movement, water charges issue & austerity in closing the budget deficit by €17.7bn. It’s been the perfect storm for them yet they win a measly win 8 extra seats (I assume due to their toxic leader).

I personally think FG/Labour have done a good and prudent job of stabilising the macroeconomic picture (and the country) and the trickle down from this will shortly be felt by the electorate.

So many of the FG/Labour voters in the last election went back to FF. The question is why?

  • What were they expecting over the last 4/5 years given the big picture? No extra taxes, no spending cuts?
  • Did they want bigger deficits and debt/gdp getting out of hand? Did FG not give away in the last budget?
  • Or have FF sucessfully convinced them all they were ‘unlucky’ it was all external influences?
  • Or is it just we ‘learnt our lesson’ we’ll be great from now on?

It’s because those who vote for FF/FG are essentially the same voting bloc. They are well aware that FG would have managed the Celtic.Tiger years in exactly the same, populist manner as FF did. Likewise, they are well.awate that returning FF to power now will ensure a continuation of the Government policies of the past four years, which were put in.place before the culmination of the last Governments term.

I don’t understand what people don’t understand. Many people have come to see FG and FF as interchangeable. When one screws up (or even when you just want to keep them on their toes) you vote for the other … you don’t suddenly become a nouveau Socialist.

A majority (FG, FF, labour, and like minded independents) did not vote for more deficits and more pork.

As we pointed out here over the last month, fine gael did a terrible job relaying the improvement in the state’s finances.

It is true that fine gael/labour’s policies towards nama, ramping housing costs and not increasing supply through repossesions caused hardship for many either renting or first time buyers. These policies favoured the multilple property owning elite, the big law and consultancy firms, made things in the banks look better than they were, and gave the strong impression to all that this govt. were interchangeable with fianna fail. That nothing really changed in 2011.

I think it will be a very foolish step on the parts of the politicians if they fail to form a credible programme for government. If there were to be another election just because the boys do not like the present outcome then they will get punished even more. The likes of AK-47, Burton etc. who just got in with the skin of their teeth will be obliterated next time around. I think that they know this and will desperately avoid another election at any cost.