Real Estate: A Capital Trap for National Savings

Heh, increase all those numbers a little and we have the M50 commute :slight_smile:

**thepropertypin **exploded out of a rented 1960’s, 1600 sq ft Dublin Semi-D shared by 6 souls and the place next door had circa 12 most times. Same landlord both houses, native my side, migrant the other.

Rooms rented for circa 260 single up to 550 for a double.

I wonder how many of our parents shared accomodation like this (mammys boys who refuse to leave and use the propertypin.com as justifiable proof to stay at home, excluded.) :wink:

Actually, anything over 100,000 in Germany is counted as a city. Preston in England is a city with a population of 180,000. The definition of city is “large town” (Collins Gem English dictionary). You’ve made it quite clear that there are four “large towns” in Ireland besides Dublin so lets be realistic, the only person talking shite is you.

Also the reason for the population of less than 200,000 in Cork city is because the city bounds haven’t moved in years which means that almost half the population of the city technically live in the county but still in the metropolitan area. It’s actually over 350,000. Belfast is over half a million with nearly half of those living in the metropolitan area.

After all, if you want to apply your corpo/city boundary rule for calculating to Dublin, it only has a population of 500,000 which makes it a “minor city” but that wouldn’t suit your troll now would it?

Actually its not. The urban hierarchy in Germany is documented by Christaller in the American Journal of Sociology. A Population of over 75k is regarded as being a ‘district city’. Population over 225k is regarded as being a ‘small state capital’. Population over 675k is regarded as a ‘provincial head capital’, while a population of 2.25 million is required to be regarded as a ‘regional capital city’.

As for the population of Dublin you are telling porkies. As of census 06 its population stood at 1.046 million, while the population of the GDA stood at 1.663 million. The population of Dublin alone was 643k bigger than your other 4 ‘big towns’ combined. Cork had a population of 190k in 06, Limerick 91k, Galway 73k and Waterford 49k. By your own twisted logic(or lack of it), Dublin must be a mega city, which we both know it is not in Global terms!

BTW my main issue with the poster I was replying too was his fairly looseand sweeping use of English. To state that ‘now most people under the age of 30 are living in third world squalor’. , which stingy buyer stated is ridiculous and stupid, and you know it. But then adressing that point would not suit your troll now would it?

I think you’re probably a bit harsh on nonbeliever there.

It is patently a fact that density in the Dublin area has fallen since 1980. Dublin has a relatively empty city centre. How many people live on O’Connell St, for example?

This is, of course, typical for a car-dependent city. The USA’s sun-belt cities are the model we follow: near empty city centres, with a disproportionately high proportion of the central populace being the socially deprived living in state-built 1960s flats.

It’s called the “doughnut pattern”. Empty centre, all the dough in the outer parts.

Public transport unable to provide a service to far flung local suburban residential areas: a typical city bus would have to travel 50 miles to pick up enough people to fill it. So buses aren’t provided, so the car is the only option for everybody.

Trains are also no good. Because of the low density on the outskirt, every train station will have only a few hundred people living within a half-hours’ walk.

City centre continues to die, because in order to stay in business, every shop needs a square mile of parking spaces. And it’s physically impossible for 90% of the people in the populated parts of the city to get a bus into the centre without walking 45 minutes to the nearest bus stop.

So all businesses (Wal-Mart over there, Ikea here) put pressure on local political power to set up massive mega-complexes on the outskirts.

Result: centre dies some more, as the periphery gets more and more built-up; total dependence on the private car warms the globe and gives asthma to local kids.

Can we ease up on the “troll” accusations mmkay?

It’s right there on page 3 buddy. Dublin city has a population of less than 500k.
If you take the entire county of Dublin, which includes a whole lot of countryside, the population is still under 1.2 million. You only get 1.6 million if you start annexing large swathes of Kildare, Meath & Wicklow. If you want to include Fingal & DLR in Dublin city population figures along with south county Dublin, then you will have to do likewise elsewhere. You’re the one using twisted logic here by applying city bounds to all places except Dublin.

I allready made a clear distinction between the population of Dublin and the GDA, so without ‘annexing large swathes of Kildare, Meath & Wicklow’, the population of Dublin is 1.187 million. The surface area that this 1.187 million live on is 921 km2, therefore 28% of the population live on 1.46% of the total area of the state. The population density is 1289 persons per km2. Now you can massage the figures for Cork all you want but you will not turn up a population density that is in anyway comparable with Dublin, in fact if you start realligning its boundaries the density per km2 for Cork will go down further.

Out of interest - have you ever lived in a Celtic Tiger 38sqm one bedroom ‘luxury’ apartment (no parking of course) nonbeliever?

I served over five years in one myself, and I must say I found the whole experience very unpleasant.

There is no quality of life for people in those dog boxes. And there’s no reason for it except greed.

I have lived in a 45sqm 1 bed apt Xman and paid accordingly for the privalage.Out of interest Xan would you describe your experience as ‘living in squalor’? If so somebody will have to come up with a new word todescribe the conditions people lived in 100 years ago or less, when 12-20 people lived in 1 room, rat infested tenements, with no heating,plumbing or running water.

Hello? That’s just what he said: Dublin’s not a high-density city! The overwhelming bulk of the people in those areas you mention outside the boundaries regard themselves as Dubs, and their lives generally revolve around the city. They have no emotional connection to the areas they reside in, in all but a handful of cases. I suppose you can call it deckland!

But you are still annexing Fingal & DLR while making no allowance for the fact that a similar distribution of a (smaller) population exists elsewhere in Ireland.
You have very clearly never been outside Dublin if you think residential density decreases as you venture into the suburbs outside the technical limit of the city bounds for Galway, Limerick, Cork & Waterford. The fact is that once city/county boundaries are re-drawn in Galway, Limerick, Cork & Waterford as they were for Dublin in 1994, we will have a much better idea how many people actually live in those cities and it will more than likely double the nominal population of those cities in the same way it did for Dublin.

And the fact is that Dublin City (official) is almost triple the population of the next biggest. You can split hairs in terms of immaterial tangential issues in nonbeliever’s post, but you can’t make any dents in his essential point because it is wholly in accordance with the facts.

You’re obsessing excessively over a single word imo. Here is how I would describe it -

It was a shitty existence, no privacy, no personal space, living up on top of someone, stressful, unpleasant, cramped, cluttered due to lack of storage. To summarise - never again.

I’m more interested in benchmarking against how people in other developed Westernised economies live today. Sorry but making comparisons with a hundred years ago is both pointless & irrelevant imo.

Classic stuff :slight_smile:

Reality is that people who decide these things consider cork / limerick / galway / waterford as cities, and that’s really all that matters.

Even Kilkenny qualifies as a city, last i heard, and that’s smaller than a lot of the bigger towns, in population terms at least.

You may well be right that the smaller irish cities are small by international standards, but then again, where would dublin city rank in most other countries? There are about as many people in the ‘madrid metro area’ as in the whole of ireland.

Only one apparently! An old lady lives there somewhere. They interviewed her in the papers as “O’Connell Street’s only resident” after the Love Ulster riots.