Rent supplement is in the crosshairs


#632

Most markets are rigged in some way.


#633

Ah now don’t be trolling :smiley:

The way I understand the magical market is what people will pay, claiming asking rents are market rates is nuaghty in golly old fashioned exercise in subterfuge and since we all know we don’t live in laboratory conditions what’s the point.

What we have in Ireland is some supply and some demand. Ying and yang. Zig and zag. That’s as close as you’ll get to a fact of life in binary terms.


#634

Well if you recall at that time this country was a very different place, there was more supply yet while rents did fall significantly, they never fell below the rent allowance limits.

There was a thread here when I think I made that point to Ronan Lyons. I went through several counties and never saw available property advertised at below the corresponding rent allowance limit.

What I also noticed that while one bed apartments remained in line with the limits, the difference between renting family homes were within one or two hundred euro of the price of a one bed. apartment

Rents were hugely inflated during the boom/bubble period.

They are as inflated as house prices are and as with house prices the only comparison that some people seem to make is that period.


#635

I disagree. It is outsourcing housing to the private sector where a tenant family can and will be moved again and again.
There should be a guaranteed permanency to allow families to settle and prosper - all I can see is this scheme will lead to bigger social issues in future.
The new Housing bill due for debate in the Dáil tonight marks a shift in the State’s social housing policy and is not fully thought through imo.


#636

This is still the case - see the Daft rental reports.

From Q1 2014. Columns are 1/2/3/4/5 bed.

https://s29.postimg.org/87nc07djb/Screen_Shot_2014_06_17_at_13_46_31.png


#637

Which it has always done. The system is failing because of the poor regulations in the entire rental sector. Renting property can no longer seen as “transient”, we have to move away from a system that permanently gears itself towards property ownership.

If you are renting and in receipt of state support and have a roof over your head - then you are not in need of housing.

If you want people to settle and prosper, then the best way is to allow them to find work and then ease them off the support as their income rises.

We’ve been doing it the other way for decades. It doesn’t work.

The system as it is, does not encourage people to work and for many out there it feeds into a misguided sense of entitlement.


#638

Indeed, a very important point that really does highlight the floor put on rents where the line seems to get drawn at the 1 Bed apts. You could have almost said at one point the Irish rental market basically had about 3/4 constant prices regardless of location for 1Bed Apt, 2 Bed Apt, 3Bed Apt / 3 Semi D

When rent went down 1 & 2 Beds began to converge if I remember correctly.

The trick in the Irish rental market is to act as a group and therefore to look at the 4/5+ bed Houses. If you were willing to house share in the past it worked out ok and also now. You can get a high spec and size of accommodation if you stop looking in 1-3 bed band because that is where everyone else is looking and this range on offer is not as accessible to couples. It’s symptomatic of the slumlord mentality/policies of the Irish Rentier government.

This tactic has worked for me on a number of occasions and I understand it’s not for everyone as it involves sharing but bigger houses are much easier to share as they are often a different layout and design to that standard and hellish 3Bed Semi-D, more toilets, more rooms that are not bedrooms, bigger kitchen. They are also often the Houses people would aspire to purchase ironically but can only get their hands on a 3Bed (or 4 bed variant) Semi.


#639

1030 1038 1046 1040

Single sharing €350 not sharing €520
Couple no kids €750
Couple or lone parent with one child €950
as above with 2 children €975
as above with 3 children €1000

If I was a single mother with one child why would I rent a 2 bed apt (which is appropriate for my needs given I cannot afford to house myself) when I can rent a 3 bed house with a garden for the same price.

I made the point that the market was completely distorted because of this very issue.

When supply was up Landlords freely accepted RA tenants.


#640

I’m reminded of Randolph Churchill…


#641

An example of the perniciousness of entitlement:
boards.ie/vbulletin/showthre … 2057235455
According to her Boards.ie history she is an early twenty-something with 2 kids, another on the way, an interest in Tatoos and 3500 euro orthodontic braces.
I really don’t want to judge her but a family member of mine has had to put off having children until they could not biologically wait any more and is renting a tiny house trying to pay childminding and rent while holding down job which requires a qualification that takes years to study for and has no realistic expectation of ever owning a house near their friends and family so are doomed to remain in the private rental market.


#642

Rather than blow our lids at specific situations I guess it’s best to frame the mess with the insight they provide; one that has been brewing so long we now have a culture that is akin to creating rent allwoance natives. I was a rent allowance tourist at one point, going native is not good.

We have a historical albeit temporary political measure, constructed in typical Irish fashion of neatly side stepping the issue by avoiding real reform and some hard work by throwing some sparkles on the bonefire and leaving it for future generations to put out the fire. Rent allowance as it is, is an institutionally permanent feature of the state housing market and a more recent political football harking back the catalyst of it’s inception.

Is it so dangerous to begin learning lessons?

Some clearly think it is.

Ironically the government by virtue of sheer economy of scale of it’s intervention via Rent Allowance payments has so much force in the market but chooses not to recognize and therefore not leverage it’s position for the betterment of all but chooses instead to play a silly game that elevates the commercial interests of a minority of speculators over that of those it pretends to protect as if that was somehow natural or cost effect to the system as a whole.

The Government can and do set the market rates and should at this point rather than remove it, recognise this power, begin to dictate the market not passivley but actively down for a sustianed period and then phase it out and resume the temporary nature of rent allowance as a means of procuring shelter. It is a good feature, but not as a extension of magic money tree thinking as it becomes a cancer.

It’s analogous to driving around on a temporary spare wheel after you burst a tire while also trying to complete that a long haul journey with it; someting it was never designed for but works brilliantly to get you out of an unexpected spot of bother on the long haul.

Life being the long haul, it might work in a few exceptional cases but overall it puts some in the tribe in the kind of jeopardy it purports to solve for others which is a dangerous irony. One we should step away from sooner rather than later.


#643

I don’t think there’s an argument that “entitlement” or “welfare” can have unwanted, negative long term effects and I think you make a fair example of such in your post.
But there are also numerous examples of welfare being a compassionate, altruistic assistance to people who need help. The problem in Ireland is the bizarre counter intuitive impacts that a poorly designed social welfare system can have. Clearly, incentivising people to have more kids that they can’t directly support is one of the biggest issues that needs to be dealt with. I think, without being at all expert on the area, they need to draw a hard line on it: at the next budget announce that from 9 months from that day there will be severely diminishing levels of payment for each child requiring welfare support but counter the political element by also considerably increasing payment for the first child requiring welfare support.
Anyway, my point really is that the “entitlement” debate has many facets, and a lot of people deserve help - the design of that help is what matters.


#644

Dublin council to acquire Nama hotel for homeless families
irishtimes.com/news/social-a … -1.1859843


#645

This is good news as long as they don’t overpay.
Anything which stops DCC from sending “down on their luck” families to the slumlords who specialised in housing them on behalf of the Council is good.


#647

kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2014-07-08a.866&s=homeless#g869.r


#648

From a SinnFéin motion in the Dáil

Over a third of rent supplement claimants in Dublin. Anyone have a more accurate figure?


#649

I’ve never seen a breakdown.

C&AG did two reports recently on Rent Allowance Sep 2012 and to a lesser extent Sep 2014
audgen.gov.ie/documents/annualre … Chap11.pdf
audgen.gov.ie/documents/annualre … pter24.pdf

DSP review the rent limits every 18 months but breakdown claiming per county is not provided
welfare.ie/en/Pages/Review-o … Index.aspx


#651

I wonder then where Dessie Ellis TD gets that one third of RS claimants in Dublin from. I assume the Minister releases the data upon a submitted question in parliament, such as this from 21 October:
There are currently 1,400 rent supplement recipients in (Co.) Waterford, at an approximate cost of €4.2 million this year. Some 326 of those, or almost 25% of these claims, were awarded this year.
kildarestreet.com/debates/? … a.28#g31.r


#652

Dublin couple ‘sleeping in their car for three weeks’

irishtimes.com/news/social-a … -1.2012427


#653

and here today they are hoping that rent allowance will be increased
irishexaminer.com/ireland/hi … 99264.html

while also reporting that 4000 anti-social council tenants can’t be evicted and cause misery to their neighbours
cf.broadsheet.ie/wp-content/uplo … geone2.jpg