Rents schments

There’s been a lot of talk about house prices and where they might end up but what about rents?
We’ve seen daftwatch show how the rental market now has over 9,000 properties and is heading towards 10,000. Rents have hit an average high of €1,400, probably due to landlords demanding increased rent to cover increased mortgages.
We know that we have currently got something in the region of 15% of the housing stock lying vacant.

What then can we expect going forward and what kind of timelines are involved?
Will rents start dropping? How much will they drop?
What happens to tenants if a landlord can no longer meet the mortgage repayments due to the shortfall between rent income & mortgage repayment?
If a rental property is repossessed, what happens to the tenants? Can they expect lower rent to keep them in the property?
Can banks afford to keep repossessed properties off the market in order to manipulate rental prices?
If tenants in a house spot a better bargain, has the landlord any comeback or way to “sting” his tenants if they give a months notice before moving while the lease is still valid?

How out of whack are Irish rents when compared to Europe? I’m always flabbergasted how much less other Europeans pay for rent or how much more quality they get for the same money? Irish rents must be a serious driver with things like minimum wage increases as anybody on the minimum wage will seriously struggle to live in Dublin with rent being an enormous part of the cost of living.

I suppose I have a personal angle in this. I’ve been renting in Dublin for since July 02. Sharing a house with others is tolerable (just about) but the landlord is putting up the rent (4 bed in Rathfarnham recently refurbished) to €2,000 from €1,650. This puts quite a squeeze on us trying to save as even moving to the sticks (& losing the good location) will only save us a few bob if at all. We’re hanging on because currently, it would be more expensive to move (€2,000 seems to be low-ish on Daft for D14. One property in Knocklyon is cheaper) and we’ll lose a great location. I’m in an alright job but €500+ is too much of a chunk of my salary to be losing when I’ve got my own savings to consider. And yes, it is dead money as far as I’m concerned because the whole point of sharing a house with 3 others is to be saving money, not handing it over to a landlord trying to meet his own mortgage. It’s also getting to be a major struggle to find replacements whenever anyone moves out and it’s very stressful to be worrying about making up shortfalls of rent if we have trouble finding new housemates.

I’m curious about one possible contradiction there.

Is it difficult to find suitable housemates, or simply difficult to find housemates at all? If it’s the latter, it seems hard for the landlord to justify an increase of that size.

Having said that, €500 for a room in shared accommodation in a nice location is not outrageously expensive by Dublin standards. If nearby properties are charging similar rents, it may be the case that you were lucky to rent relatively cheaply for the last years.

The EA’s new mantra is that buying is now cheaper than renting. It will be interesting to see what happens in the Dublin rental market in 2008.

I’m as convinced that rents will fall as I was that house prices would fall.
Unfortunately as with house price falls I can’t tell you how soon it will happen.

The good news is that with house prices already falling the first domino has already tumbled, so I can’t see how rents can keep going up much longer, if indeed they still are.

The bad news for you is that good areas near good public transport might actually hold up pretty well, because there will be a ready supply of people who are currently paying for rent in bad locations who will be happy to move.

The bottom line is that house prices and rents are so completely out of whack that something has to give.

-Rd

The EA’s new mantra is that buying is now cheaper than renting. It will be interesting to see what happens in the Dublin rental market in 2008.

Little typo there, I’m sure you meant to say lie.

-Rd

Difficult to find them at all.

We got caught in a bit of a bind on this one. He pushed the new lease. We talked him down from €2,200 and the old lease is up at the end of this month but moving house wasn’t really an option due to Christmas & personal circumstances (I’m going to be away for 3 weeks on business and don’t want to find my belongings on the footpath when I get back). Another housemate is visiting family abroad at the time.

Maybe by Dublin standards but everything I’ve heard from European friends indicates that they can get far better value than we do. Is there a Dutch/French/German/English version of Daft where we could check this?

I’m wondering if with 15% empty stock, are we in line for rents coming down to continental European norms or is Ireland so different that somebody on the average industrial wage spending a quarter of their net income to put a roof over their heads and share it with others should be seen as good value?

If it helps… here is a site to check dutch properties.
www.directwonen.nl/

The problem is that there is no strict like for like comparison as the majority of accom around amsterdam is apartments service well by metro, tram and bus. Add to this bike lanes separate from the road n footpath n it will be very difficult indeed to find ur comparison to some place deemed well serviced in Dublin with dublin bus swinging by Mondays and Fridays.

Did you know… that if u are hit by a car while cycling ur bike in amsterdam… the driver is wrong… no matter what. Even if you break a red light…
Isn’t it easy to see why they all cycle to work.

Tell this shylock to stick it up his @rse and go and move out. Why should you have to pay for his mistakes ?

Because everybody else is charging even sillier rents right now!

Once again, it’s Bertie and co sitting back and doing nothing about it…yet more Fianna Fail laissez-faire economics…

Correction - everybody else is asking even sillier rents right now!

Start shopping around, you might find the market a little softer than you think.

I wonder is your landlord aware of this, or has he got his head in the sand.

I’m sure this is probably true. However, as magoko101 said, I don’t see how you could do a meaningful comparison here. Factors like square footage and proximity to city centre don’t even begin to tell the whole story. You would have to have a knowledge of each specific city, and the properties themselves. As many of my European colleagues have found, renting in Dublin is an expensive business, but it’s something anyone choosing to work in the city will have to deal with in the short-term anyway. Although I agree that eventually rents will become more reasonable as a knock-on effect of house drops.

I’m not sure how much of that stock would be in a place like Rathfarnham. Having said that, the Gasworks and Grange debacles show that there are empty units in good locations. However, it’s a long drop from the €1500+ rents for 1 beds in these places to < €500.

Best of luck with the rental problem, hope your landlord realises that he’s lucky to have good tenants when they’re scarce on the ground.

We’ve tried to make him aware but he isn’t listening. He’s looking at daft saying “hey I could charge these guys way more so I’m being nice enough as it is”. I can see his point of view but hunting for new housemates is a stressful business. We’re doing the landlord’s work for him really.

That’s the plan but unfortunately we have to wait till February/March at the earliest due to personal circumstances. It’ll sting to have to pay that rent for even a few months but there’s no real way out. If we were going to move, we’d have had to do it in December and that was never going to happen.

Lot of new stock up Ballycullen road direction. As for outside Dublin, it would probably take some time for lower rents outside Dublin to attract people out there. However, would even bargain hunters want to live in ghost estates?

Working in Naas and I’d move out here in a flash if there was reasonable value in rents. There are even places out here looking for €500 plus too as well as cheaper ones. Having checked out a few of them already, there is usually a good reason why it’s cheaper. My attitude is why should I completely crap out my quality of life just to save 50-100 a month? Naas needs to get a lot cheaper before it can attract proper tenants because Rathfarnham as it stands is still better value for money when you take quality of life into account.

My own gut feeling from this is that rents aren’t really going to get hit until repossession of empties starts and those repossessions would have to take place in places people might want to live, rather than future ghost towns in Co. Laois. Could we see a situation where rents crash in commuter towns but remain stable in Dublin because the commuter towns are too awful to contemplate living in?

P.S. Apologies for putting it in the wrong forum.

i remember in the early 90s paying roughly a 1/4 of my wages on renting a gaff with 3 others. d9 , close to town , could walk to work.
i dont remember the figures too well , but i was getting paid by the week and i remember 1 weeks wages would cover the rent for the month.

also in the late 90s i was paying something like 4 or 500 pounds for a room in a gaff in ranelagh - maybe it was 400 pounds , so thats about 500 euro - cant remember the details exactly.

anyway , point is , as long as i can recall rents were always high here.
if anything the rents have not increased at all in the last few years.
think some LLs are feeling the pinch now.
for 2 reasons - some are feeling it from the interest rates.
others know there is no capital appreciation on the horizon , so where as before they were “earning” that way - now they want to see some return via rent.

if i was the OP and say a cheaper place then i would move - why not?

Actually, rents did used to be more affordable in Ireland, but one has to go back some time. Rents as a percentage of incomes rose quite sharply during the '90s and again from around 2000-2003. Thereafter they remained flat for a number of years until taking off again in the last year or so.

The Department of Environment compiled a report on affordability back in 2002, before the gubberment cut down on that sort of thing. The section on rental affordability is on pages 25 and 33.

Note the following graph is from the year 2000, and precedes 2-3 years of double digit rent inflation followed by a number of years of stagnation.

You can git a 4 Bed villa with swiming pool here in my wifes town west of Barcelona for 1500 Euros per month, while we pay 1575 for a 50M2 in a badly built apartment in Dublin.

Have a look.
thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?t=5717

It pains me to say this cause I am looking for these lot to reduce the rents here but
-5.25% 4 Bed House - 22 STOCKING WOOD GREEN, STOCKING AVE, Rathfarnham, €2,000 per month, €1,895 per month, -105
www5.daft.ie/searchrental.daft?id=519723
For a 4 Bed is cheaper than what the greedy muppet wants to charge you and you are getting a 1 year old house.
You also get peace and quite cause the place is empty, there are a load of houses but nobody has bought. It is a little into the hills but I suppose you got a car since Rathfarnham has no transport links.
You do realise that moving at Christmas would have given you a big advantage? Any landlord without a tenant in late November can kiss two (maybe three) months goodbye.
Secondly, you are ahead of the game there. Rents will plumet in the late spring early summer. Make sure you can give the mother 1 months notice so you can take advantage.
Anyway, best of luck.

well i am sure the LL could find someone only too willing to move in with you guys , but surely you would rather interview and choose the person yourself?
i mean if the LL said he had someone lined up to move in ( his brother or something like that ) you would be on here giving out about what a control freak the LL is.

my point is that given the choice between putting a free ad on daft and spending a bit of time finding a tenant yourself VERSUS relying on the LL to find a replacement - would you honestly choose the latter?

Scary moment for me, but I actually find myself in agreement with 2Gaffs!!! :open_mouth:

:wink:

you sound like a dynamic savvy guy :wink: :wink:

Don’t disagree with you 2gaffs and it is much better that we have some control over who is coming in but my point is that when it comes to somebody moving out and we find it hard going to get a replacement. It’s us who have to to worry about how we’re going to make up the shortfall in rent. The landlord sits pretty knowing that his money keeps coming.
Until we move out that is… We had seen the Stocking Wood price drop as well. It doesn’t look bad but if we’re going to move to the Dublin mountains, we’ll be looking for more than €25 each better in rent. Now who’s being greedy eh! :wink:

yes i know where you are coming from , but in fairness you did know that when you signed up.
i presume no one put a gun to your head?
i cannot see any LL giving an exemption for a case like yours from the outset. its just too much hassle for him.
if you dont take the gaff - some other group of four people who dont want that exemption WILL take it.
until that changes , just keep to your side of the bargain :slight_smile:
bust a deal - face the wheel.

yes thats exactly it - you will pay more for living closer to town , better facilities - walking distance to pubs - all that jive.

moving to a worse location to save 25 a month - its not worth the effort of even moving to a similar location let alone a worse one!
25 * 12 is 300 a year.

i do wish you the best of luck in your house hunting tho.
dont be moving ( to potentially a worse gaff ) just to get back at the LL or anything like that. dont get personal , if you see a better deal then go for it - but dont let emotion rule head - thats my 2c anyway.

another thing regarding location.

did i hear correctly that the average commute time is 70 minutes each way in dublin???
to me that is fking madness.
say for instance you can rent a gaff that takes say 10 minutes to get to work and is close to pubs etc - how much is that worth to the average humanoid?
its saves them 2 hours a day = 10 hrs a week - 40 hrs per month.
is 10 e ph about the average wage?
so surely its “worth” 400 euro EXTRA to people to live close to work and play.
this does not take into account the extra transport costs involved in living in the sticks and defo does not take into account the stress involved.

any thoughts on that?
i know my sums must be wrong somewhere!! but be interested to hear peoples take on it