Repossessions

irishtimes.com/newspaper/ire … 09253.html

irishexaminer.com/home/anger … 07868.html

(later)

(later)

irishtimes.com/newspaper/ire … 13702.html

(later)

I will ask the obvious question. What the hell were they thinking?
Ok Waterford Crystal has been on the rocks for a while now, but they were steady jobs none the less. Those figures are crazy even for boom times. And the party was well on it’s way to winding down in 2008 even the dog in the street knew it.
With a 17 year old child it would be reasonable to assume that these people are in their late 30’s or early 40’s with a 277000 mortgage at 11% and repayments of 1900 p/m what is the repayment term?
This is absolute madness, but probably only the tip of the iceberg

Id agree with you about only the tip of the iceberg as there are people out there who borrowed on an interest only basis to but “the trophy home” and when its reverts to an annuity (repayment) mortgage then the games over and there will be nice houses available at reasonable prices if the bank will allow the mortgage.

Absolute madness.

Now, now, lads, there’s no subprime in Ireland. I have it on goo…, eh, some authorit…, eh, some fellow said it a while back…

They couldn’t exactly rent when any home would require modifications? We need reform of the tenancy laws now.

What were the three ts that our forefathers campaigned for btw? Security of tenure and free title were two I believe?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_War
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Land_Acts

I’m annoyed with the way the media spin this:

  • headline “Anger as families at the mercy of lenders”

Read more: examiner.ie/home/anger-as-fa … z0ZkYFQF0T

first line

Makes it sound like 800 is something close to what they owe - You have to read a good way down to find out that they owe 1,900 a month. Even the judge essentially *advised *the woman to stop fighting the reposession

What’s the point in spinning this - when people are in way over their heads they need to accept it? The media are being irresponsible as they imply that these people should not have to repay what they owe. I’m all for exploring aternatives to these cases ending in reposession and going on the housing list - e.g. a manageable repayment plan and letting her stay in her house but the state takes an equity stake in her home equivalent to the bail out she has received… But that’s what the media should focus on - solutions, not rabble rousing against the banks.

Just to try and give you an understanding of the mindset. I was with a large multi national who upped and left in a well publicised manner

Many of the staff knew that the future was inevitable, however many saw it as there last chance to get a mortgage and get on the “property ladder” (permanent job, Bank still throwing money at them). They felt that they would have not too much hassle in getting a new job (many had been through the process before, redundancy yesterday, job offer today)

Some went to senior management and asked for advise (I witnessed one where a senior manager told an employee U will never go wrong with property and that the company is here for the long haul, Manager had multiple properties). I call it the Pied Piper effect.

I pointed the guy to the Pin and luckily he did not purchase. It’s down to good old fashioned Irish Greed, when the young Irish emigrated to to Australia, USA, UK for century’s, who was there to greet them and take advantage of their plight.

Isn’t that one of the key ‘ifs’ of the near future - will the banks grant mortgages? And even if they’re in lending mood, what happens if wages are declining as rapidly (or more so) than house prices? Houses that revert to 1990s-type prices may well not be affordable at 1990s-type salaries…

I’ll be on newstalk at 12.35 talking about the case mentioned in the examiner

Might be worht putting things in perspective for people.
Highlight what cost it would be to the state to cover the current negative equity… and/or highlight the size of the in arrears issue. I think I read somewhere that it was around 2-3% were currently in arrears. If the mortgage volume in Ireland is 400b that 2 % is 8b… double the recent cuts.

Nothing like a bit of perspective for people when they are thinking about a single instance of a family in trouble.

I heard a bit of it on newstalk. Blame was being put squarely at the door of ‘de bould banks’, with the couples contribution to their predicament dismissed as ‘just doing normal things’. Ya, an interest rate of 11% on a mortgage is normal, sure weren’t we all at it?

“Something must be done”, “Where’s this womans Nama” etc etc… the usual rabble rousing.

I would just love it if someone went on the airwaves and said, right… this womans NAMA will cost 8 billion, so we are upping the both tax rates by 5%, and introducing a special levy of 2% so that people like this can keep their homes.

“Something must be done for people like her” right Eamon?

Nothing like a spate of tear jerking repossession stories to remove public support/ toleration for NAMA and the fiscal austerity binge.

Just wait until the mortgage moratorium on BOI/AIB/IL&P ends.

That Eamon bloke is the reason I stopped listening to Newstalk.
He gets into populist hystrionics about something and the next week he does a complete 180 degree about face argues the exact opposite !

Last year he was screaming blue murder about cancer misdiagnoses.
Piously listening to patients relatives and saying sure Mary Harney doesn’t care about people dying etc.
2 weeks later this stupid c*nt criticizes Harney for “closing cancer services in the midlands”.
(The HSE had transferred cancer services to a centre of excellence in Dublin).

Thank God this populist emotional self-contradictory nincompoop with the memory of a goldfish does not influence policy in the country.

I agree - what were they thinking. But I’d like to balance it a bit - what was the lender thinking? 277K @ 11% is 30,470 in interest per year, or 2539 per month. Did the lender really believe this mortgage was going to be repaid?

The judge should at least have had the option to tell the lender to &^%$ off and pay their own costs.

Well, house prices only go up so even if they defaulted the lender could foreclose and still not take a haircut. Plus the loans could be securitised. Someone else s problem. Everyone’s a winner 8DD

Never having heard of Stepstone mortgages I looked them up. It seems in this case Lehmans can be blamed. The examiner isn’t that good with figures so I’d ignore their 11%.

From archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/200 … y21598.asp

[code]IIB Homeloans and British investment bank Lehman Brothers will launch a sub-prime mortgage …

The mortgage, which will be offered under the Stepstone brand, will have a standard variable interest rate starting from about 5 per cent,

The Stepstone mortgage will be sold solely through brokers and will largely target the self-employed …

Self-employed applicants will be able to self-certify their incomes when applying[/code]

I assume you’re being sarcastic here, because as far as I can see policy in Ireland is populist, self-contradictory nonsense with all the memory of a goldfish.