Residential Mortgage Arrears, Restructures and Repossessions


#4014

@HiFi, don’t apply logic to this legal battle.

It would indeed be irrational for this couple to hand over €3K+ as they walked out the door, after failing to pay a single installment towards their mortgage for seven years while they were in the house.

This is a legal battle where the courts are on their side although the law is on the side of the vulture fund I.e. the judges will tie themselves in knots to avoid giving the lenders their legal rights I.e. the collateral. I doubt the judge believes they will pay up but she had to impose that condition.

Either this couple will come back into court, having failed to pay any contribution to their mortgage, and repeat all the same nonsense or they will pay a contribution to the mortgage because they think that this would help them keep the house long term. In neither case will they give up possession quietly


#4015

Of course they’ll pay the latest mortgage installment during this 3 week hiatus. It’ll look good for their case and will give the Judge more leeway in giving them another favourable decision when they’re back in again.

Make no mistake about it, these 2 are going nowhere, they’ve won the lotto with this decision


#4016

Even the Indo can sense the absurdity here. Which would be worse - a system which worked like this in all cases or a system that only favoured celebrities? (I use the term very loosely, to mean anyone who might get to sit on the Late Late sofa)

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/justice-is-blind-to-star-power-as-celebrities-fight-for-their-homes-38431880.html
The Indo couldn’t bring itself to mention the most famous and wealthy of all our bankrupts, AJF O’Reilly who sold Castlemartin and a magnificent holiday home in Glandore to satisfy his creditors.

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/creditors-of-bankrupt-oreilly-to-get-dividend-37107056.html


#4017

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/permanent-tsb-sells-almost-2-000-mortgages-to-vulture-fund-for-264m-1.

Permanent TSB will get €264 million for the debts. The borrowers involved owe the bank a total of €506 million secured on 1932 properties.

Private homes

Some 1,422 of the loans are secured on private homes while 510 are tied to buy-to-let properties.

The deal cuts the proportion of bad loans on Permanent TSB’s books to 7 per cent from 10 per cent.


#4018

Restaurateur Ronan Ryan: ‘I had agreement not to repay €1.2m mortgage debt to bank’

High-profile restaurateur Ronan Ryan has said the reason he did not make repayments for several years on his €1.2m mortgage debt was that none were required under an agreement he entered into to sell the home that he shares with his wife, former Miss Ireland Pamela Flood.

He has also claimed he did not receive appropriate advice before he consented to a vulture fund getting possession of the property.

After hearing from both sides, Mr Justice Garrett Simons said he would give judgment on the appeal on October 7.

He continued a stay on Tanager executing the possession order until then. “This is a difficult case. I need time to consider the submissions of both parties,” he said.

Aye, tis a poser all right :roll_eyes:


#4020

At least Sir Anto had the sense to know when to throw in the towel.
And whilst I’m sure it was an easier decision given the wealth of his wife, he could just as easily have used her wealth to obstruct proceedings in the same manner as these ‘celebs’.


#4021

Not unless they end up keeping the house with a write off.
But even then, the older I get the more I realise that time really is the most valuable commodity of all.

Living mortgage free for 10 years sounds great, but the problem is they are 10 years older with 10 less years to start afresh.

I know a number of people who hit the wall back in the recession.
The ones that came out of it best are those who handed the keys back to the bank, went to the UK, did 12 months penance and returned free and clear of debt.
The fact that they were able to begin again was only part of the benefit, the biggest advantage was that the threatening bank letters and court cases stopped.
10 years of this level of stress is no joke and will undoubtedly take it’s toll on any individual in that position (not that I’m sympathising with anyone who voluntarily decides this course of action).

Many of my clients couldn’t declare bankruptcy given the implications such action would have on their jobs (accountants/legals etc.). Most wished they could.


#4022

Celebrity couples are in the half-penny place. Here’s a couple who are walking away from > €6M. debts to Ulster Bank . And they keep their home although the bank claims it is “beyond their reasonable living accommodation needs”.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/high-court-writes-off-more-than-6-million-debt-of-retired-garda-and-wife-38518101.html
I thought the personal insolvency arrangements were only for debts under 3 million Euro. It seems this couple invested in lands for which they couldn’t get planning permission and which I assume are now simply agricultural value .

If courts are this generous to debtors, the vulture funds must be wondering whether they will even collect 10 cents on the euro on the NPLs they bought from NAMA.

We can tell our grandchildren about the days when banks would give Millions of Euro to a retired Garda for gambling and then the politicians stepped in so the banks couldn’t get repaid.


#4023

Not one mention explaining the ultimate costs to the proles of this compo culture, and the precedents set for next time. Be they British or Irish taxpayers it is still a waste of scarce economic resources.

Rise of debt write-offs: How hundreds are seeking deals as they battle to save their homes
Another interesting aspect of recent court decisions is that a debtor’s advancing age does not necessarily militate against their PIA being approved.
In the case of Mr McNamara and Ms Lowe a judge dismissed objections by Tanager that they would be 78 and 75 respectively when their new mortgage term ends.
The judge noted there was no retirement age for musical directors or barristers and pointed out that singer Burt Bacharach was in his 90s and had recently performed a series of concerts in Dublin.
In another case an arrangement was approved for a woman who will be 90 by the time her mortgage term ends. She was able to show she could cover the payments from her pension.

The judge knows very well that many barristers can struggle to eek out a living even during the money years

There is more


#4024

Tis a great country we are in when someone can suddenly manage to find €3700 a month, every month for 5 months, while declaring themselves bankrupt at the same time and them having paid nothing at all for 10 years while they were NOT bankrupt. :smiley:

Even Ben Gilroy would gasp at the sheer audacity. :smiley:

Mr Ryan, in his affidavit, told the court that since re-possession proceedings were issued in February 2016 he had, on three occasions co-operated with the several banks that had owned his mortgage debt to sell his house. He had even vacated the property to allow viewings.

He said that prior to Judge Linnane’s March 8th order granting Tanager consent possession, his then legal team had negotiated the deal after having advised him he had no defence. They had not advised him of the personal insolvency legislation. It had been due to a friend noticing widespread publicity of his case that had led to his knowledge of insolvency.

Mr Ryan told the court that is all of his dealings regarding the sale of his home he had been told by banks that repayment of monthly instalments were unnecessary. He had expressly been told repeatedly “we just want the asset,” that the repayments were irrelevant.

He said he was now in a position to make his monthly repayments and had been paying €3,700 a month since March last. He wanted to save his home and he and his wife had signed the consent possession agreement because they were not aware of any other option available to them. Non-payments had never been a strategic intention on his part. So eager were his creditors to realise the asset that they agreed to no payments, offered to write down his €1.2million debt and pay him removal expenses.

Judge Simons will give his judgment on October 7th.


#4025

Given the nature of the business, I’d guess a restaurateur who hasn’t heard of an insolvency regime is about as rare as a farmer who hasn’t heard of a subsidy cheque.


#4026

oh oh oh … or a politician who has never *seen a brown envelope.

*heard of


#4027

Speaking of RestaurantHoors This clown sold his house to Dinny O Redacted almost 20 years ago for £7m, the highest price paid for a house in Dublin that year IIRC. He had bought it for £140k years before.

You wonder how the clown ended up owing €4m at all???

Feniton sought the judgments over money loaned to fund the purchase and refurbishment of properties at Wellington Road, Heytesbury Lane, Dublin, and St Stephen’s Green, Dublin, and were put into investment funds.

Ahhhhh, exclusive tastes, what! :slight_smile:


#4028

https://www.bpfi.ie/news/borrower-lender-engagement-key-finding-resolution-mortgage-arrears/

Borrower-Lender Engagement is Key to Finding Resolution to Mortgage Arrears

some interesting statistics arise from an analysis of the most recent report from the Housing Agency (Q2 2019) on the operation of the Mortgage to Rent Scheme – which enables distressed borrowers to stay in their homes.

  • Of the total 4,712 cases submitted to the Scheme since its inception (in 2012)
    • 527 cases have been successfully completed; and
    • a further 1,058 cases are being actively considered

so another 3K in limbo…


#4029

Residential Mortgage Arrears, Restructures and Repossessions Q2 2019 figures

(Note 1: BTL figures are discussed separately here http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=50546)
(Note 2: Analysis of Restructured Mortgages can be found here http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=63422)

Report Link

Arrears

Repossessions

Restructures

Where Green = highest since records began and Blue = Lowest since records began


#4030

Let the floodgates open says Mr Justice Garrett Simons. And be damned.

Pamela Flood, Ronan Ryan avoid immediate loss of home after court appeal

Couple had appealed against circuit court order in favour of so-called vulture fund
Ronan Ryan, husband of former Miss Ireland and TV presenter Pamela Flood, has won his High Court appeal over a decision allowing a financial fund to execute a possession order for the couple’s home in Clontarf.

Mr Ryan opposed execution of the possession order because he had obtained a protective certificate giving him a period of protection from his creditors as part of his application for a personal insolvency arrangement (PIA).

His appeal was against a Circuit Court decision last August allowing Tanager DAC to enforce possession of the home of the couple and their four young children at Mount Prospect Avenue.

In a judgment on Monday, Mr Justice Garrett Simons said Mr Ryan was entitled to avail of the protective certificate which “continues in force”.

The judge said he would not allow Tanager to enforce an order for possession of the couple’s home or to sell the €900,000 property and he would set aside the Circuit Court decision in favour of Tanager.

Mr Ryan, a well-known restaurateur, has a €1.2m mortgage debt on the property.

Ms Flood was a notice party to the proceedings.

Mr Ryan had consented last March to the making of an order for possession in respect of the house in favour of Tanager, subject to a four-month stay on execution of that order.

The house was to have been vacated by July 9th but Tanager claimed the couple and their family did not leave.

Instead, Mr Ryan brought proceedings under the Personal Insolvency Act and obtained a protective certificate from the Circuit Court in late June.

The certificate prevented Tanager from executing the possession order against the couple’s home pending the determination of the application for a PIA.

Tanager, which acquired the loan Mr Ryan took out on the property, opposed the appeal and had argued it was fundamentally unfair if the existence of the protective certificate was allowed to derail its order for possession.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/pamela-flood-ronan-ryan-avoid-immediate-loss-of-home-after-court-appeal-1.4042748

Why are we paying mortgages at this rate. Isn’t it rational that we all stop


#4031

Shocked by that ruling. Everyone can do that now. Precedent set…

How long do you get under the PIA? It’s been a few months already

EDIT: see this in today’s Irish Times


#4032

Outrageous. It must be so galling to their neighbours.


#4033

The system works! :dipso:


#4034

That’s some article. Martin is the worst kind of creature we have in Ireland…solicitor/barrister who wants to be a TD also. This ‘opinion’ piece shows him covering all his bases