Schools pushed to limit by baby boomers

The Indo’s editorial from last year wasn’t that impressed by this new fangled technology. Why bother planning seems to be the implication, something their bond holders can relate to.

independent.ie/opinion/edito … 88742.html

Who are all these children being born too?

Benefits rise will increase single mums

Hmm, facts and figures are always so difficult to argue against :imp:

Is it true in the US if there is an unplanned pregnancy the state will look help with the mother with the first child but only that child and no other additional unplanned children of single mothers?

Immigrants are making up a disproportionate amount of these births in propoetion to their % of the population , simple demographics really.
Sure its all worthwhile , lends to that multi-cultural feel down the dole queue. But say nothing havent you heard its a taboo subject to discuss.
Now anyone got another 12billion to balance the books this year.

Show an actually referenced figure that stacks up and you might be able to discuss it…

Single mothers/immigrants to blame and we haven’t even gotten started on this recession yet.

I’d hate to be an immigrant single mother working in the public sector who bought a gaff in 2007. :nin

It shouldn’t be that hard as logically it’s not surprising. Immigrants tend to be in their 20’s and 30’s, the exact segment of the population that bear children. Only a study that compares the the level of births from immigrants to those of non-immigrants - within the 20-40 age bracket - has any relevance. Otherwise it’s a false statistic.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misuse_of_statistics

equally I could say
Show an actually referenced figure that doesnt stack up and you might be able to discuss it.

good for the goose good for the gander

No you couldn’t equally say that because I didn’t start with an assertion, I’m waiting to be convinced there is an issue by you know, like actual evidence…

I pass or rather get delayed as I pass two schools on the way to work each day.

The number of immigrant children going to school is huge. These I assume are immigrant children in that they’re not pastey faced. It doesn’t include the Caucasian type immigrant children who you’d have to look at for a while longer to figure out if they look Irish or not. There was a school bus travelling in the other direction this morning and it was full of obviously immigrant children.
Over the last 10 years IBEC and ISME we’re screaming for looser immigration control while still howling at any attempts to increase corporation tax or CGT.
DETE allowed free immigration as they were serving the wishes of Mary Harney and her husband. Department of Social Welfare, Health and Education are picking up the cost for childrens allowance and education.
Business wanted cheap labour but didn’t want to shoulder the cost.
Immigration policy ensured we never reached a class size of 20 students.

You could be saying these kids will be paying our pensions in 30 years time but I’d guess they’re a good deal more mobile that the locals and might not be here then to pay for the rest of us.

This is a topic that is extremely difficult to discuss without being accused of being racist.

My Irish Naturalized Polish friend’s son has to translate in to Polish for the teacher in his class.

Problem is seen mostly in West Dublin but other areas have the problem too although maybe not to the same extent.

My neighbour is studying to be a midwife and the majority of the births she has attended are to non-nationals

The other issue is whether it’s undesirable or a problem to have recent immigrants reproduce at a higher rate. Typically first generation immigrants have a higher reproductive rate but that falls off by the second generation.

Some anecdotal info for you. I live in a small development of 30 odd houses. There are no immigrants or single mothers here and yet there are babies popping out at an enormous rate. Last year (08) there were 9 babies, the previous year (07) there were 11. This year, so far, there are 7 due.

I made and assertion …without providing an actual statistic
you made a counter assertion … without providing an actual statistic either …
same difference but spot the TPP difference … ones a Mod and we all know how Animal Farm worked out …

No, I stated you would be permitted to discuss your assertion if you could actually make an intelligent case based on evidence. That’s not an assertion!

That’s TPP policy! :smiling_imp:

Back on topic people.

More anecdote I guess – I had my first kid in 1996 and my second in 2007 in the same Dublin city centre maternity hospital. The deterioration in the standard of care in the intervening eleven years was appalling, due to severe overcrowding. A nurse told me that patients regularly gave birth in corridors behind curtains in recent years– I managed to avoid that indignity but had to spend a miserable couple of hours in labour in a public waiting room because there were no beds available. The place was dirty and chaotic. If I ever have another baby, I’ll just spread a few newspapers in the shed like our cat, it’d probably be safer. Now it’s really disingenuous to ignore the part that immigration has played in this overcrowding. During the months I attended the public clinic, the other expectant mothers around me in the public clinic were approximately 50% non-Irish, often more.

I realize this is a difficult topic, and in the media you get either pieties from the Irish Times or spittle-flecked intemperate rantings from Myers and his like elsewhere – no journalist seems to have tackled the subject with any honesty and maturity, let alone any of our elected representatives. To me it’s fairly simple. Our stupid government treated immigration with exactly the sort of short-termism it treats everything else. Good Friday Agreement - citizenship for everyone born in Ireland, hurray. Whoops – people are using that to bypass asylum procedures - let’s close the loophole with an ill-thought out referendum! EU expansion – allow members of all accession states immediate rights to work and residency, with no thought as to the pressure this would put on education, health, housing, general infrastructure. . Three years later, the economy is in the toilet and we’re still left with those overcrowded hospitals and schools, and what’s their response – to cut language support teachers in the Budget ffs.

Only if you can provide adequately benchmarked statistics to show that the issue is replicated in other countries such as Sweden who also allowed full accession state rights. Then you get to the nub of the problem as to whether it is services, medical or educational or actually higher rates of both immigration and somehow, fertility amongst our immigrant population.

To me the only issue is whether people are here without having a job. If people come here, are working (and paying tax) then the inability to properly provide for the population is **our **problem and not theirs.

Would you say the same if the maternity ward was full of people from Galway? Whatever way you look at it there was a need for a population of X and they’re going to come from somewhere. If we only have facilities for 60% of X then something has gone awfully wrong and not in a way that limiting immigration will fix.