Sounds like Pat Mustard delivers the milk around your area!!
Okay, I will amend that to:
Now it’s really disingenuous to ignore the part that immigration and inadequate forward planning has played in this overcrowding.
This article notes that in 2005, Sweden received only one-tenth of the EU accession state workers that Ireland did, so we are talking about far smaller numbers here.
I’m not bothered whether the people are from Galway or Poland or wherever, I’m talking about a rapid rise in population in the last decade and the inability/refusal of our government to allow for that or provide for it in any way. Perhaps it’s wrong to over-emphasise the part that immigration has played in that but it’s pretty daft to ignore it either.
(Note the report only includes children born overseas, not the children of recent arrivals who were themselves born here)
Patronising people by throwing the ‘r’ word around as broadsheet journalists do whenever this comes up, actually fuels racism rather than preventing it IMO.
In fairness, paracetamol, you’re are bringing in terms like “daft”, i.e. the pejorative. We’re quite happy to discuss this in a calm sensible and rational way.
Nobody suggested there was anything to ignore, once a sustainable basis for discussion has been provided!
I disagree. You can’t turn on infrastrusture like a switch.
Dublin West and the commuter belt that came to be can’t/couldn’t handle the increase in demand on infrastructure.
the populations of certain parts of the city and country ballooned and infrastructure couldn’t expand to match.
The more mature parts of Dublin haven’t seen the problem, the towns beyond the commuter belt haven’t suffered to the same extent but the part of the City I live in certainly couldn’t cope with all the extra immigrants coming in.
If Government had chosen to limit immigration to sustainable levels we’d now have a denser city that doesn’t extend much beyond the M50 which we could afford to build up and service with public transport.
Sorry. Disingenuous then (didn’t use it as I think I said it twice in one post!).
We are expecting a baby in the next few months and during the course of pregnancy I have accompanied my wife into the Rotunda for various scans etc and the difference is amazing.
We are going private and as such are given an appointment and see the doctor at the specified time but there are scans which have to be done and the scanner available to the private doctor is mickey mouse machine so we have had to go to the main hospital. There we sit in a queue with the rest of humanity and having been there several times I have noticed that not only Irish people but Europeans were in the minority and to add to that I have had horror stories from friends who on admission there was no private bed available and they ended up in a public ward which could be described as rough as f***. This is not a country where you would want to have to go into hospital at all.
Of course not which is why a well managed economy has to grow at a **sustainable **pace. If not one of two things will happen
- The infrastructure of the area will become overwhelmed by people coming to avail of the new opportunities.
- Labour costs will rise so high they crash the economy.
I think it’s very short sighted in the case of #1 to blame the people who came to work in jobs we were offering. Of course it’s exactly what happens in every recession.
I hardly think acknowledging the effect their presence has is the same as blaming them, sharper. I don’t blame them - I was a migrant worker myself for a couple of years for the same reason they are (worked in Germany in the early 90s). But it’s impossible to compare a country like Germany to a basket case like Ireland.
Society wasn’t offering these jobs. A vested interest was; IBEC and ISME members but at the lowest wages possible and PD’s mandate was to assist IBEC and ISME without regard for the society as a whole.
I don’t remember labour costs rising so high in the 1980s that the economy crashed.
Oh please. A distinction without a difference. So now we have responsibility for the decisions taken by our democratically elected leaders, our business owners and every single person that contributes to the economy?
The lowest wages possible? So for the time period we’re talking about wages did not increase and/or they actually decreased?
I’m confused what relevance you think the 80s have here.
sort of like whens its raining , and someone doesnt have an umbrella they blame the drops for getting wet. its exactly what happens in every shower. Short sighted indeed …
here we go again …
no ones blaming anyone
you can be a reason or a cause or at fault for something but yet not be to blame !
Its a big concept focus hard and you might get it .
paracetomol put it better
follow the money, all driven by vested interests
the same organisations that most pinsters decry from on high here where those crying out for the massive unsustainable mismanaged influx. This has had a massive impact on Ireland and theres yet to have been a national debate cos if someone even mentions it the ‘r’ word is rolled out.
Back on topic… schools are being pushed to the limit.
Tis a shame and thinking long term kids of all nationalisites who receive a poor education are at a disadvantage in the new era we are entering. Plus its not much fun for tem either the poor little craturs whateve language colour or country they come form .
Based on this analogy you think the recession was caused by immigration and that it’s therefor perfectly logical for people to finger them as the problem.
The question you should be asking yourself is why there’s a shortage when the entire population that they’re servicing are working and paying tax. Where the population came from is a classic distraction to the root problem, namely a complete lack of forward planning coupled with inefficient and corrupt leadership.
I also think it’s hilarious to see several people decrying special interests bringing immigrants into a country where the native population thinks they’re too grand to work as a shop assistant anymore. I remember around 2004 someone I knew was trying to hire a van driver and good luck getting any Irish under 30 to do it for less than €700 a week.
thanks for my chuckle today … entire population working and paying tax… obvioulsy your talking of that place Jeporday where all the jobs are, meanwhile I was discussing Ireland
Yep and where were all the van drivers . Working on the sites building ghost estates,in badly designed urban sprawl, financed by disastrous lending practices , aided and abetted by poor/corrupted govt decisions to house media porn driven ftbs into a live of mortgage slavery to fund a cultural and social fesspot of materialism,coke and bling.
10 things wrong with that whole picture …what makes you thinking adding 400,000 migrants workers to the mix wasnt number 11 .
or are you saying in your post (it cant be an assertion cos you havent provided any statistics to back it up, obviously the mods have allowed your assertion without statistics… only those assertions that counter the viewpoints of certain mods require factual backup) adding 400k migrant workers to the mix was a good thing…
but all the other items are part of the reason we are in the current recesiion, in case you didnt notice Ireland is being used as a ‘worst case’ scenario.What aspects makes us a worst case…theres a number of them and to get back on topic, schools pushed to the limit by our baby boom is one of them …
I may have missed something.
I read the article from the original post and essentially it was a press release frrom the Dept of Education. We are currently undergoing a baby boom - how and why is neither here nor there as far as they are concerned. But the point was that they are now using some fancy statistical / geographic software to determine where they are building new schools in order to AVOID the issue of overcrowding which had been the norm up till now.
Previously schools were built in a somewhat haphazard fashion in a completely reactive manner. Isn’t this a good news story that planning is now entering the process at some level?
Yes welcome to full employment in Ireland. When you’re done chuckling you can have a think about how your population can be maximally utilised and still not be able to provide them with clean safe water in a western country in the 21st century.
Most of them yes.
We can examine the situation and see if immigration had a net positive or negative effect. Did tonnes of people show up and sponge off welfare? Do we have an abnormally high number of immigrants committing crimes? In fact has immigration caused any problems whatsoever other than we advertised jobs and people came to work them?
If you’d like statistics then ask for statistics. Don’t whine that facts have not been provided in a discussion where none were asked for.
In other words you want to say that unless someone can provide immigrants didn’t cause or at least contribute to the recession you’re going to go on believing that’s the case.
Ireland is being used as a worse case scenario for it’s shit poor urban planning. The problem is our inability to to efficiently service the population, not that the population exists in the first place.
I’m shocked that this thread is still open after the word immigration was mentioned so many times
My local bunscoil is also full at the minute which is great to see, yet the secondary school has had decreasing numbers for the last 6 years or so
They’re completely different things. These jobs were created as a result of FF policy when in chameleon fashion they took on the hue of the PDs.
That’s not Society, that a 5% to 7% of the electorate Tail (bankrolled by ISME and IBEC) wagging a Dog.
There is a very good reason why your local fast food outlet and discount retailer is staffed predominantly by non-nationals. There is a very good reason why Dunnes Stores are leaving loads of staff on 15 to 20 hours work per week. Labour is a factor of production and if you, as an Employer, can influence it you make sure that you keep your labour resource as cheap and plentiful as possible.
During the 1980s the Labour market wasn’t seeing economic migration/immigration and there wasn’t wage inflation above the general rate of inflation. You suggested that a likely outcome in an economy is that without immigration there would be wage inflation and that’s what I was replying to,
I have interesting static. In Poland there are circa 10 children born for 1000 of population. In London there has been 13k passports issued to children born there for about 900k of estimated Polish population in UK. It seems that living on islands makes Slavics more fertile. I have actually even worse news, in few months I will become father again. Either pubs close to early or RTE is too boring…
Probably because the Poles in the UK are of child bearing age.
[gets ready for the impending flak]
Are we not approaching this whole planning thing backwards,
should we not be putting the population where the services are
not putting the services where the population are!
Imagine an ideal world, you are planning the perfect country,
would you let people live whereeveer,then come along afterwards and
put the services in everywhere there are people
would you put the services in first, then put the people only in those areas so as to benefit from economies of scale?