Seán Dunne - Big Writeup in The Phoenix

Makes for interesting reading:

  • Property deals
  • Arguments
  • Litigation
  • Even a honey trap

It is impossible to see how he will ever get out of Ballsbridge with any sort of profit but then again maybe his loss will not be so great if the development company is limited liability and he has just put up €4 million himself.

I don’t fully understand this part, is he personally liable for this money even if the banks roll it up into the principal oris it a case that once it is rolled up into the proincipal then he is no longer personally liable. Any clarification would be appreciated.

The vast majority of ‘Developer’ deals in this country have personal guarantees attached. ie if the company fails to service debt and gose bust, then the personal properties, family homes, helicopters, Farraris etc go to the bank.

I read somewhere previously, probably a thread here that quite a lot of developers have unlimited companies in Ireland, which has minimal reporting requirements in terms of accounts but that these are then owned by limited liability companies in other jurisdictions such as Isle Of Man or Channel islands and so the developer gets the best of both worlds, limited liability and reduced reporting requirements.

Another trick these guys do is to put a good portion of their private wealth into their wifes names, so it cant be touched if they do go personally bankrupt.

I think that might be what went on here…

The only thing she provided was the number :stuck_out_tongue:

Quite right. But the banks are not the complete eejits some take them to be, they know the reasons behind such shenanigans, which is why they insist on personal guarantees.

I imagine that most of the big players have substantial funds secreted away overseas - a la Michael Lynn for just such an eventuality - so if they default on those guarantees they can then just become tax exiles and presumably the banks can go sing for their money.

They can always appear in court via video link :laughing:

The hubris was incredible. Perhaps one of the most successful developers during the boom now has his tower of babel (without planning permission of course).

How much were Michael Lynch and Thomas Byrne’s personal guarantees worth?

Of course the banks were complete eejits.

Is Sean Dunne’s personal guarantee worth the 800m the banks have tied up in his 10 acres in Ballsbridge?

If it is then I’d be calling it in tomorrow and letting him wear it.

many think he bought walford, that nice house on shrewsbury road for in excess of 50 million a few years ago. didnt warren buffett comment on the sale price of walford by saying when non productive assets like a house fetch that much peoples egos have gotten ahead of reality.

walford is back on the market empty and unused with probably 10 million of interest paid(or not /rolled) now with planning for 2 additional houses. i think hes looking for 75 million. good luck with finding a buyer at that price.

i think i feel another 37 storey tower coming on here…

i spose once i get planning for the first one, then the second one won’t be as hard. feck it, i can even use the first one as a precedent to show it’s the right thing for the area!

it’s the best signal we can send out to show everyone that ‘Ireland Inc’ is open for business!

What Goldhawk doesn’t discuss is whether Ulster managed to shift these loans out through its securitisation scheme. According to this bumpf from its advisers McCann Ftizgerald it managed to shift over 5 billion euro of mortgage backed securities between December 2006 and the onset of the credit crunch in August 2007.

mccannfitzgerald.ie/news_and … p?sID=1857

mccannfitzgerald.ie/dealsheets_4.asp?sID=186

Could it be that the complete eejits are/were sitting in a bank in Manhattan? :smiley:

CMBS buyers are not eejit enough to buy non-income producing assets. Its all about certainty of income with CMBS There was only one commercial property securitisation in Ireland, the Eurohypo one for Treasury Holdings.

This type of loan would be more suitable for syndication. When I asked the question before someone alluded to Ulster having reduced their exposure through syndication to the other Irish banks. I’d say the debt is still in Ireland

This was never going to succeed. Even if you pretend that we weren’t in the middle of a massive bubble, there just wasn’t (and never will be) a market there for x amount of multi-million euro apartments in Dublin. People with 1, 2, or 3 million to spend here will go for a trophy house and there’s always plenty around D4 and 6 available in that bracket. There just isn’t that many people around who earn enough to pay those sums and the proportion of those who’d prefer an apartment is tiny.

I remember doing a few quick sums when I first read the details of his plan and concluded that it was a non-runner financially, and this was before the whole world went tits up. If an amateur like me can see this from a quick read of an article in the IT property supplement then what standard of advice was he getting from people who are being paid huge sums of money to know about these things? If I was an AIB or RBS shareholder I would be screaming blue murder at the next AGM and demanding that the officials responsible appear in person and make a full explanation of their actions.

I’m afraid Mr Dunne will now never get to join the ranks of the super rich as was his obvious aim in life. Although I’m sure he has enough stashed away to keep himself comfortable, he has (with the aid of inept, star-struck and greedy bank officials) effectively stolen and lost gambling money rightfully belonging to pension funds, charities and small shareholders.

There is an old saying:

“If you owe the bank €500K that is your problem. If you owe the bank €500M, that is the banks problem!”

I think this is an illustration of the quite common misconception many people in this country have, about the status of Dublin as a city. I think it was said somehwhere that Dunne wanted to create a sort of Knightsbridge in Ballsbridge.
Dublin is a small, essentially provincial city. You can’t compare it to London.
Sheffield or Leeds maybe. The difference is Sheffield isn’t as far up its own arse! As the previous poster said, the market is simply not there for million euro apartments.

Or ‘Liverpool with money’ as one English visitor called it one time.

If you compare the size of the Dublin metropolitian area to the size of other metropolitian areas in Europe, Dublin is the 74th largest city in Europe. Taking one dimension, size alone, that puts Dublin into perspective.

See the table here:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest_Eu … itan_areas

I think that in 2006 some people thought that it was probably up there in the top 5 in the world in terms of wealth, class and sophistication!

I don’t see how you could compare Liverpool or Sheffield to Dublin. Dublin is the political and economic capital of Ireland. It has numerous European headquarters located there aswell as the IFSC. It is in a much better position and has a higher profile than those cities. London or Paris it ain’t but perhaps it could be compared to Copenhagen in it’s size and status.