Signs of the tide coming back in.

*“Only when the tide goes out do you discover who’s been swimming naked.” *- Warren Buffett

Well, the tide’s coming back in, and it seems the need to cover up for all that was exposed about Ireland Inc. during the last few years is receding.

Just caught on this forum today:

Nama not needed anymore - Mission accomplished: Heuston, we have a floor on this market… So let’s fly some kites about disbanding the loyal crew, let them go back to creating some real wealth out of property again.
:sick:
Bertie out canvassing again, saying FF are a great party - the last few years, sure it was only that cunt Micheal Martin at the helm…
:sick:
Fitzpatrick and the lads let off… Actually the main beef I have with the case is that the Department of Finance, Central Bank, Financial Regulator, NTMA, the legal and financial advisors and Shane Ross all seem to have escaped the hatchet, too, in the jigs and the reels…
:sick:

This is why I returned to positing as I sensed a disturbance in the force. I was not wrong but the message is fear not the menace. Do no let it within you. It is not your being of thought, feeling, compassion nor spirit.

Look on these events with new more deeply perceiving eyes. Eyes that know in sincerity it is not real. A fabrication to keep the mask in place.

Note the life of A to B to C all the way to Z, is not your life.

Then what?

I’m not sure the evolving of political consciousness proceeds in discrete linear stages. Which is what I understand OW to be talking about, here.

That’s not to say either that we are necessarily heading in the right direction in this - I mean, the tide has come in and out in this country a number of times, notably it was far out during the 50’s and 80’s (for exactly similar reasons as most recent ebb) . But what direction of political consciousness evolved in this country from those times?

It does seem to me though that this process of tide coming in and going out (to labour the metaphor) is going to become much more speeded up and frequent, as the present communication revolution marches on and on, affecting all other areas of life and technology and economics and financial and social systems.

There are major implications in that.

No doubt, fear is an utterly divisive force. Whether fear of missing out on “the bottom of the market”, or what have you… We know from solidarity comes political strength… But that does not look like happening around our generation. All we see are factions coming about. Both on this forum, and out in the real world.

So as always, it is up to the young. They are the ones able to answer the question, “then what?”. Of course, our generation will be incapable of understanding them, and that is as it should be.

Maybe worth saying also that I think the answers to these questions fit uneasily in reductionist, linear approaches. Which is one of the reasons I appreciate occasional posts like OW’s very much, that hint at the metaphysical aspects. When we’re talking about the whole LIFE that emanates from a LAND, which is what we are talking about here, it is not completely potty to consider such underlying currents etc.

The tide is constantly getting more aggressive due to intervention, but lets all blame “climate change”. :laughing:

War of independence, civil war,…social war.

I think the most likely scenario is that we are in a “phoney peace” period.

At the moment, the EU is like Wile E Coyote: it’s already gone over the edge of the cliff, but it’s just suspended in mid-air, not falling.

Draghi has made some purely verbal signals that he might engage in some non-austere money sharing, if deflation happens.

The spending programme necessary to get Eurozone unemployment down to 8% and to dispel Japanese style deflation would be awe-inspiringly huge. The first penny of that programme has yet to be authorised.

On previous form, Merkel would demand cuts and fresh austerity to cancel out the beneficial effects of the spending.

If she didn’t, it would be a blatant admission that her previous demands for counter-productive, anti-European cuts were themselves a big mistake, a sop to German racist feelings towards their southern neighbours rather than any kind of economic logic.

+1

Guys, the fact that more people are out buying togs isn’t a sign of any tide, it’s just a sign that summer is coming at last - it really is as simple as that.
Some people have been listening way too much to Warren B* Buffet!

  • loody

Celtic Tiger RIP: Change in conservative Ireland six years after crash - Michael Hennigan finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews … 7584.shtml

You think wearing “togs” is half a mil for an unattractive semi-d in the likes of Ballinteer or Rathfarnham? *

That is what lies under the tide at the end of the day. EVERYTHING based on a paradigm where two hard-working professionals thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=62434 must both work hard at something boring and soul-destroying for 30 years to provide a life for their kids, and will hardly have fuck all energy left over for their kids, or for making a real difference in the life of their society through engaging in terms other than the one of capitalistic organised workplace.

All it will take is another unforeseen shock, to make the tide recede again, and show this up as utterly unsustainable.

  • These are what comprised a “starter” home for our (professional) parent’s generation on 2.5 times one salary.

Rehabilitation of the bankers and those involved in the cover-up* guarantee.

What the bankers knew on the night of the bank guarantee . . .

  • (Cover up the fact of the systemic orchestration of a gigantic property bubble by the entire Irish establishment and its institutions that engendered a massive wealth transfer across Irish society.)

Obviously the development of political consciousness is not a destination, but it’s not development or evolution in any meaningful sense unless there is knowledge gained and true knowing requires the individual to live out of that knowing. In our Irish reality - which is what we’re talking about here, how does one live out of any real knowing or political awareness? Awareness seems like an inadequate word in this context.

No doubt those implications include the fact that meaningful knowledge isn’t aquired through soundbites and speedy communications.

Can you explain this? How is it ‘as it should be’ that our generation cannot understand?

I’ve churned this over for a couple of days and can think of no basis for agreeing with you. I don’t see that all of these elements of understanding and action, and questioning and answering fit easily together.

If the youth happen to answer the questions of our generation, it’s not, imho, because they understand them and we don’t. It’s often that they ignore our questions and are busy answering other questions. It has more to do with the capacity to take action, the difference between the young who are (perhaps less than ever now) boldy, and often ignorantly, carving their path and those who are uneasily deliberately (perhaps more than ever) living the path of least resistance that they have created.

How does the evolution of a political consciousness fit into that scenario?

In the Irish context, the young are the Celtic Tiger kittens - do they have the answers to our questions? Can they?

Answers to most things in life don’t come from or fit into reductionist or linear approaches - it’s not how individuals or communities work.

But it’s fair to ask what, in this reality that we share in this country, what the scope is to live out of knowing when un-knowing is impossible. It is - again perhaps more than ever - incredibly difficult to say no, to live no (or yes to an alternative), and to un-know no.

The question ‘then what?’ asks what the choices are and how to live them - frustration? cynicism? railing against the machine? cognitive dissonance? exhaustion? surrender? embracing? choosing ignorance?

And in that context, if all is struggle - and I think it is because individuation may be an organic, personal flow, but by definition it’s still against the tide - how does any kind of useful political consciousness evolve either from generation to generation or in the individual?

Or put it more simply, in words at least: If we “Look on these events with new more deeply perceiving eyes. Eyes that know in sincerity it is not real. A fabrication to keep the mask in place” - how can we ‘be’ with that?

Perception is the seat of experience. And, you can fully live out knowledge in the realm of the mind. Take for example maths and physics. It does not necessarily have to be in the outside world. Certainly, this is very true when we’re talking about ‘political consciousness’, where if you try to live out a new political consciousness in the world, you might get imprisoned for it. Or at least be put to life-annihilating economic and social straits. Thus, it has to be incubated elsewhere. And awareness of course is fully tied up with experience. They are practically interchangeable. But look, this is a philosophical discussion that really merits much more depth and length. Let’s not get side-tracked. Investigate where such as Gandhi’s statement about “changing yourself first (if you want to change the world)” comes from, the thinkers who influenced him etc, and you will see where I am coming from.

I mean our modern world changes at an incredible (ever increasing) rate. And our only hope of adequately adapting fast enough is if there is as big a gap as possible between each generation - the “generation gap”. Don’t take it personally - but if our generation has as much of a problem understanding the upcoming generation, as say, our rural grandparent’s generation would have had understanding our generation’s modern metrosexual, then, we can take comfort in the fact that we are probably changing as fast as our environment is changing, and humankind as a whole will thus survive.

The continuous struggle for truth. The courage, youthful fire (and time) to look and see, and process, and articulate it. Eventually propagate it.

Of course, “truth” is ethereal. A major truth at nineteen becomes insignificant at ninety. A major truth at one stage of a society, become superseded by others, over the course of the development of that society. And articulation is a continual process.

Which laboriously brings things back on topic to this thread, perhaps - the most significant truths we needed to embrace as a result of the recent crisis, are currently being swallowed up by the changing tide. Their very ethereality contributing to them losing more and more of their significance as time passes…