- another 1
So we’re going to have to endure a slew of horror stories about children eating cardboard until the ‘Because I’m Worth It’ sector of the middle class get their debts transferred to everyone else?
Perhaps it’s necessary to present the reality of the situation for people who genuinely can’t provide for their families as opposed to those that just don’t want to work off their debt. A sticky of social services, entitlements, legal advice and procedures might be helpful.
On Radio 1 earlier the man from St Vincent de Paul presented the genuine case of a mother of four children who returned to her home to find the locks changed and her family homeless. Of course that’s never going to happen to a mortgage holder in modern Ireland, only to tenants, but it doesn’t serve the cause of the middle classes to debate that issue. Instead we have acres of newsprint about a stubborn man who rears his family on cornflakes rather than address the problem.
Yup; 150k people with their sense of where they belong in society at risk is the issue. Would be shocking if prices dropped due to repossessions so that a prudent working class person could snap up the family home of an imprudent person who became an accountant because the Institute of Education got them thru the Leaving, perhaps at Allsops Spring 2012 auction.
Morgan Kelly doesn’t get it and his maths are off; the debts at issue and the forgiveness this constituency needs is more like 15-20 billion. And they need to keep their houses or else it was all in vain. If it was a 6bn problem, there would not be the desperate emotional resonance that we have seen.
However, this is becoming such a clearly orchestrated campaign and fundamentally so toxic to the interests of the State that you have to ask cui bono ? And how does one fight it ?
Ok, so O’Relly and O’Brien are tax exiles and a buggered State makes their life easier so they don’t care. The IT is a trust and its journos are prime candidates for negative equity and economically illiterate anyway. The prudent are quiet (so far).
Can the Irish Home Truths website be used to spread awareness of this ?
(Via twitter @brianmlucey ) Brian Lucey wants a professional opinion on the contents of that contribution. This will be interesting, particularly as it has been such a central part of his argument earlier in the week.
Seems to me like MK really likes the sound of his own voice. Becoming a media whore of course adds pressure to always needing to have something to say…just to stay in the headlnes.
It also occurs to me that Economists above all should not be relied upon for any advice. Their profession has been completely undermined and their track record abysmal. MK is nothing special. There are many Pinsters here who would run rings around the guy and have been shouting loudly for years about the property implosion , long before MK.
Of course the cherry on the cake is to have his comments printed by the same media who for years printed falsified propaganda supporting the Bubble.
So any comments from either MK or the Sindo , I treat with a default indifference , forever hoping that the Sheeple of Ireland follow a different prophet.
I don’t think that is fair, he has made very few media appearances and public utterances. When you consider how interested everyone is in his every word I would imagine journalists and producers are constantly contacting him. In which case he has been turning down 99% of them for 5 years now.
So in essence , what you are saying , is when we needed him most , back 5/10 years ago he was silent ? But now all of a sudden when we all need the bloody obvious to be pointed out , he steps up ?
Did he just recently find enlightenment ? Or maybe he just read a few threads here ? Either way I don’t find him or any of his ilk worth listening to.
I’m all for belated enlightenment, so I can get over the… silence… of our economists during the bubble.
However, if that silence is further compounded by current bayings for bail outs for the Profligate… THAT I take serious issue with.
+1 
Erm the IT published his first article in 2006 after several other papers had refused. ( viewtopic.php?f=19&t=33265 ). That would be about five years ago. Too late to make any difference to the bubble, but not too late to get the consequences so badly wrong.
And no, I don’t agree with everything. I think the costings for debt relief are too low. I think the ‘me too’ factor is underestimated. I think a generalised debt relief scheme is divorced from historical precedent and we have already had too many Irish solutions.
Still, I recognise that there will be debt relief of some sort, the questions are:
- Who gets it?
- What are the terms?
- How much can we afford?
Knowing this country the answers will be :-
- Who gets it? EVERYONE
- What are the terms? COMPLETE WRITE OFF.
- How much can we afford? DOES IT MATTER ? WE ALREADY CANNOT AFFORD WHAT WE HAVE ALREADY TAKEN ON.
So lets all let MK et al discuss and agree amongst themselves how we can enslave yet another future generation.
SPOT ON. (Tweaked your wording). It’s downright narcissism to think that they have entitlements to the detriment of all other members of society.
I have often thought that surely there must be at least ONE eloquent debater who posts on this website and who could advocate in the media on behalf of the Prudent in the face of such onslaught by the Profligate and their pushy advocates?
Anyone out there who is good at live radio and tv debates? Who could take on Vincent Brown if necessary? If so, is it perhaps time to emerge from the ashes and do the decent thing and speak up?
To his credit, Lucey has recently been criticising the media for not seeking out viewpoints from a larger section of the community.
I challenge you! Get out there!
We should also be on to the ministers and TDs about this and not just sit back and let these chancers emotionally blackmail the government into giving them a bail out while continuing to reside in their houses.
I’ll fucking do it!
I’ll shit on their parade!
Let’s grab these cunts by the throat and ram their cock-sucking, lying, poisonous, treasonous bullshit back down their cakeholes!
Let’s burn it all!!!
LET’S DOOOOOOOOOOOOOO IT!!!
NO! WGU.
YOU will do up the posters and videos. Now sit in the corner and contain yourself
Next!
I’m in charge now. I speak for pinsters.
I mean … I could if you wanted me to.
I’d rather not, obviously.
Don’t know what I’d say.
Why do I have to be the one? I don’t need this. Why does this have to become my problem?
No, I’m out. Forget it. Find somebody else. I’m sick of it. I’m sick of doing everything for the pin!
While we’re at it, any thoughts on language?
Most pinsters are in favour of bankruptcy-lite, give up the house, no writedown simply for being in negative equity. Doesn’t really trip off the tongue though. Meanwhile, the very language of “debt forgiveness” sounds like mom and apple pie - after all, who’s against forgiveness?
I think we need two things. A term which neatly and accurately captures the bailout for the irresponsible which elements of the media are pushing, and a catchy phrase for what we do want, preferably avoiding the word bankruptcy itself.
No recourse. No penury.