Sinn Fein's alternative budget

Being published today, apparently gets 3.5bn in an “adjustment” but in a different way to how the coalition will

Pearse Doherty was on radio this morning. Off the top of my head:

1 Public patients paying for beds in private hospitals at full rate (well their insurance companies). No idea if they factored any elasticity of demand for health insurance. eg I’d sa this would make my VHI prohibitively expensive so rather than an expected saving you’d see an expected loss as I cancelled my VHI cover
2 taking a number of people out of the USC bracket.
3 income above 100k to be subject to an extra 7%. Can’t remember how much this would bring in but I bet they haven’t factored in people upping and leaving.
4 A pay cap of 100k in the public sector apart from consultants, 150k cap to apply here. Not sure you can do this under Croke Park?

Taking 2 & 3 I know several people who’d get up and leave (if I can convince my wife I’m one of them). So someone on 150k is probably factored in as paying an extra 3.5k when in reality some would actually “contribute” approx -60k (of course not saying everyone on 100k+ would leave but there is a non-zero probability of that person upping and leaving which I bet hasn’t been factored in)

Newstalk had a copy but I think it’s on general release later today

They can say anything they like in opposition without having to think about the unintended consequences like somone in the ULA who sugested the idea of a 100% tax rate for everything over 100k.

Sounds great if you are earning 20k, but it misses the point that no one would work after earning 100k or just leave.

You don’t even have to get up and leave.
Many on €100k+ can control their income via company structures etc.
So they have the ability to adjust their salary ‘down’ to €100k and keep the remainder in a tax-efficient manner.

Forgot to add, he claimed someone on 136k had an effective tax rate of 24%. For a PAYE worker I call absolute 100% bullshit on this

Btw Pearse for the sake of clarity and transparency any chance of comparable effective rates for those on 20k, 30k, 40k etc etc

7% extra for over 100k. In my honest opinion there will be a ~ 2 % increase over 100k or else labour will be walking.

Those with cyclical profits will want to smooth it out but extracting profits ain’t so straightforward. You can’t liquidate a company at capital gains rates willy nilly, moving abroad for 3 years to break ordinary residence will become much more common.

I know several individuals with relatively modest P&L who have foreign incorporated Irish resident structures (companies) who plan/hope to build their retirement/gaff stash and then do the bare minimum abroad. The noteworthy thing is that these people will never be multi millionaires, just moderately high earners who think its worth spending 2-3k a year on fees to avoid already putative rates on the self employed.

My oh comes home with 47% of his gross, now health and pension is deducted also so I’m not sure what the actual tax take is, he earns less than above but 6 figures…so I don’t know where sf’s figures are from

Labour have already proposed equalising the USC for PAYE and self employed. Currently only self employed have an extra rate over 100k

labour.ie/press/listing/1350 … 18433.html

As I said absolute bullshit

My effective rate is 40% of gross and 44% of taxable (I put 10% into a DC pension). I’m private sector

Even ignoring USC & PRSI my effective rates solely for PAYE are 29.3% & 32.2%. If pension relief is touched this will increase as I’ll only put in 5% to get the extra employer contributions

More rabble rousing I’m guessing “look how little those rich people pay, let’s get em (and conveniently ignore than people on up to 35k pay fuck all)”

Amazing that they consider 71m a considerable amount given our 14bn deficit to 31/10/12.

That 71m will be spent/wasted in the first days of January 2013.

Should add these are based on my monthly income in a non-bonus month (namely November)

Any bonus I earn is taxed entirely at the higher rate so my overall effective rates are actually higher

Given the title, I was expecting the thread to be completely empty.

If you count USC and PRSI as income tax by other names (which USC certainly is and PRSI arguably so), that’s about my effective rate on low €40Ks, after pension relief on 10% of it. I think they’re being disingenuous here at best. Even if that 24% is true in the very strictest sense for income tax only, the real rate with USC and PRSI will be around 15% higher.
40 odd % sounds about right.

It’s horseshit. I’m on a little over half that, and I pay effective tax of 35-36%* as a renter with 6%/5% pension contributions, rent relief and only VHI as BIK.

I can bloody well assure you that any pay increases I get send my effective tax rate up and not down.

However, if you count this 136k person as a 60+ year old married single earner, maxing out his/her pension relief at 40% of income
hookhead.com/Tools/tax2012.jsp?srt=20.00&trt=41.00&prsi=4.00&pepw=127.00&lusc=2.00&musc=4.00&husc=7.00&lusct=4004.00&musct=10036.00&husct=16016.00&src=41800.00&gross=136000.00&newgrossmonth=&bik=0.00&ss=0.00&pensionpc=40.00&credits=4950.00

You can get an effective tax rate of 25%*

  • above figures count USC and PRSI as part of effective tax.

Obviously I’m biased as I don’t earn over 100k, but what is the issue if people leave because their salaries are capped at 100 or 150k? If they leave, someone else will replace them and so on and so on. Unemployment is reduced and the wage bill decreases.

The policy applies to public sector workers. Will the government up sticks and move? We can but hope… :laughing:

:slight_smile:

Obviously.

ever occur to you that people wouldn’t be able to command such salaries if there were someone equally capable, sitting on his hole at home?

The 10% for self employed over 100k was introduced in a knee jerk when the changes to USC meant some self employed were no worse off and instead of equalising it they took more from the self employed

You can justify the 3% difference on basis self employed don’t pay employer PRSI but on other hand they don’t have PAYE credit and don’t get same benefits as PAYE

increasing USC by 3% on incomes over 100k only raising 71m shows you that tax increases really need to happen at a lower level to have any meaningful revenue raising benefit. Once you get to marginal rates of over 50% you are into the politics of envy and jealousy where people’s income is being seized because of some policy that they are paid too much

I’m surprised they aren’t planning on raiding the National Pension Reserve Fund, their usual go to aid