Some economic gurus can get it quite wrong!

if this is true Quinn seems to have gone a bit crazy on the old speculating. The only thing is i imagine a lot of these loans from anglo? are non recourse ie the Irish taxpayer now owns property in India, Russia and the Ukraine.

That article is harsh on Senator Ross. I’d need to reread Ross’s articles as I was under the impression that he never was a cheerleader for Anglo. Maybe I need to mark him down a couple of points.

Why as the man says himself, he’s in the entertainment business…

Shane Ross was not quiet at the EGM

He was given space to make all of his rants (some of them were repeated - as he likes to hear his own voice!)

Quite a few questions were rhetorical

Agree with you TUG - SR is part of the entertainment business & an ex-stockbroker (which could also be classed ae entertainment!)


Shane Ross may or may not be right all the time.

However, he deserves huge credit for highlighting the shameful shenanigans in FAS and the debacle that is Anglo Irish.

He might be in the “entertainment industry” but the fact that he is the only one to articulate these views reflects badly on the Irish journalistic profession generally.

Most importantly, the tragic thing is that this country depends on people like Shane Ross to expose these issues when we should have competent and ethical management performance in public bodies in the first instance and also meaningful regulation and auditing…now why does the phrase “white blackbird” come to mind???

Wasn’t it Audit in FAS in the first instance that started raising questions… Shane just seized on the paper trail when smoke signals became apparent…

We need people like Shane Ross because Mr Roddy Molloy withered in the strong glare and exposure of publicity and not in the auditor’s exposure.

I disagree with Shane Ross about a lot of things. Europe for instance.

The point is that this guy is valuable for what he is not. He is not a Gombeen.
That is a rare and valuable thing in public life on this execrable little island.

I was thinking about this in the shower this morning …

Is economics a flat-earth science ?

I mean look around us , all the structures , investment banks, corporations, exchanges, high-st banks, hedge funds, pension, CFDs, sfps, sivs, suvs(;-))… are falling apart AGAIN!
This isnt the first time this has happened .

Globalisation isnt working out so well, there is debate over the Euro , countrys are border defaulting, central bank printing presses are at max power .

So what have students of econmics been stuudying for the last 20 years or even the last 10.
Unless they were being told in the classroom that every economic model in the world is about to crumble and is fundamentally flawed then surely whatever theywere being told was a good example of an economic theory was in fact proven to be incorrect over the long term.

What has a current student of econmics or even one graduated in the last 5 years studied as an example of how to achieve growth sustainable and viable , that has in fact turned out to be sustainable and viable growth .
Its Flat Earth Economics… what they knew, studied, idolised and promoted was a fundamentally flawed theory …

The Earth is round, economists… welcome to the 21st Century…theres a new map.

I think you need to study some economics.

I think he’s spot on.

Because we are so impoversihed. There is a joke I know that goes like this.

I met an old woman in the street the other day. She was compaining about how she wished society could get back to the “good old days”.

So I took away her pension, ripped out her hip replacement and pulled her 9 year old grandson out of school and shoved him up a chimney.

Yeah. Economists have just lead us up a complete cul de sac.

Yeah I have been…
I even asked some people for advice on the subject … my bank manager, my estate agent , my pension advisor, my stockbroker, my accountant, my auditor, my bond manager, my outsorucing consultant, my ceo, my cfo, my investment adviser, y mortgage adviser, my old econmics lecturer, my SFP stategest , my CFD analyst, my actuary , even my old commerce teacher … and they all said the earth was as flat as the reflecting mirror in my optical telescope… Funny that…they all said I needed to study some econmics too so your in good company there geckko

econmics a science …dont make me laugh next the economists will come out and say ‘if you give me 1 euro I can give 30 people the same euro and then give you back your euro as well’ oh hang on they did !


Modern economics is simply high octane capatilism with a (Token) dose of socialism.
It panders to humans desire to succeed by enriching ones self, with scant reference to other people in society.

Because, like a pervert in a hookers party, we don’t know when to stop, we overshoot and up in a big slump. Modern economics is Cyclical you say, maybee, but why such a high amplitude?
As a model, i’d argue modern capatilism is deeply flawed and only continues to be operated 'cause it panders to Humans base instinct of greed.

Equally, sociallism, and comunism, fail because it ignores the base instincts. and thus we all get lazy, and become poor.

Society has to become more equitable and self concious, for the Human race to truly succeed.
Naked capatilism or Socialism has failed.

I think we will see Capatilism MKII. but for “growth is an imperative” substitute “sustainable growth is an imperative”

At least untill we forget what happened during this decade


This is spinning too far off into space for me to add constructively now.

  • Economics doesn’t champion any “systems”
  • Economics doesn’t even recognise different “systems” per se.
  • “Capitalism” is not a term used in economics. In fact it has no clear meaning.
  • Economics is a (naturaly flawed) attempt to understand stuff that happens

Well her pension is wiped out.

And obviously gecko in my argument I was exempting all the medical breakthroughs (such as hip replacement surgery) that had been made by econmists :slight_smile: … as well as the gratitude education owes to economics.

So back to the round world…
maybe when the dear old granny talked of going back to the old days she was simply referring to the article in the FT she had in her basket along with her carbolic soap and jar of marmite, about how the old finance banking model had stood the test of time and still returned good profits even today …
cmon gecko even you have to admit you hark for the good old days of economics, youd much rather sit in a nice green leather chair, behind a walnut desk , in a room with ambience (no glass panels) surronded by cherry wood paneled walls (and not that veneer stuff) pouring over a dusty earmarked ledger ( and not a 20" flat screen)
in fact one of the Investment banks did just this when they moved into that ‘gherkin’ looking building in London, the old banker boys refused to occupy the new modern look office space until it was redone in the old fashioned ways …

So you think it is just the result of “medical breakthroughs” that allow septegenarians to aspire to hip replacements or indeed them or any other member of society to any other medical treatment or procedure?

As Morpheus might say, “hmm interesting”

Pretty much every field of human endeavor fails a lot of the time.

We can only proceed with the best we have available. Democracy is horribly flawed but we have nothing better to replace it. Capitalism with regulated markets are flawed but we have nothing better to replace them.

Economics is a particularly tough one because it includes how people will act in certain situations. What’s worse is once you figure something out those people learn it and their behavior changes again.

That’s said “Some economists say…” is probably the most useless statement in the English language - we can certainly look at the arguments put forth by economists and try to apply them to different situations but you can’t take anything on face value.

hang on a sec … I will ask the missus

MA CHERIEEEE … how many economists working in MIND …thats (Massachussettes Institute for Neurologcial Degenerative Disease reserach )…

None she says gecko… tis all scientists and alot of people with medical backgrounds
but she has some friends in MGH where the actual FIRST total hip replacement was done so she can check how many economists are in the Dept Orthopedics there and get back to you…
if your still interested …

anyone know where I could pick up a piggy bank .