Spain's Dropout Generation

Spain’s Dropout Generation -> marketoracle.co.uk/Article19959.html

Sounds familiar. I know an awful lot if these, female as well.
Ireland just doesn’t have the graduate job culture that they have in the uk. When many people realise the type of job available to an average grad they turn to travel, more college and casual part time work.

Withdrawal from the pressures of modern life isn’t just a Spanish phenomenon - the Japanese have a word for these folk:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori

Ok, slightly different in that Hikikomori are usually teenagers and in their 20’s, but the general point is the same…a refusal to engage with a traditional birth-school-work-death cycle.

I might know a couple of these people myself… :angry:

Indeed. Paradoxically, this type of approach to life on the part of many people (it could be argued that its the ultimate in mé féinist consumerism) could actually have more success in collapsing the existing status quo than any amount of revolutionary agitation.

Meh, people should live their lives the way they see fit but do it on their own dime.

Being a bum is not cool.

‘The Euro Zone Has Failed’ - Václav Klaus -> online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 … l?mod=e2tw

The no sweat Irish: Money for nothing and their kicks for free - David McWilliams -> davidmcwilliams.ie/2006/03/1 … s-for-free

Is your point about the DMW article that not signing up to work for he man will lead to economic ruin?

I like your mind BR, I’m less sure of your politics.

“The European “soziale Marktwirtschaft” is an unproductive variant of a welfare state, of state paternalism, of “leisure” society, of high taxes and low motivation to work.”
I rather think that instead of a failure, this ‘unproductive’ society is a success. I’m all for work, but if you are wrecked by it, burnt out, or just incapable, I don’t see a problem with that. I certainly don’t want to see a general situation where work is a life and death obligation.

Especially when the majority are working to enrich an elite. I think people should have a work ethic and aspire to get out there and do it for themselves. But I would like BR to clarify where he is coming from on this point.

timesonline.co.uk/tol/commen … 142095.ece

This generation has LESS opportunities than the prior one.
This current incarnation of capitalism is NOT fair.
You cannot fool these people after they’ve been educated. And from Japan, to Spain, we are talking mostly of graduates here.
By the way, this trend started in the 60’s, in developed western democracies, UK, US, France…

Blaming the welfare state for this refusal to engage with the system as it is, is a cheap, populist and narrow-minded. And the ONLY argument that the conservative, big business, V.I’s camp has been coming up with when properly confronted with this issue, for the past two generations.

A better world is not only possible, but necessary, if we want to avoid dramatic socio-economic consequences in 10 years, and a truly fucked-up country/planet from then onwards.

Obviously, if you are wealthy enough, that wealth could protect you from those consequences. And this is the big hypocrisy of our time. A lot of people know deep down that this system is unfair, unsustainable, and rotten to the core, but they don’t want to recognise this, as they’re busy trying to accumulate enough wealth to protect themselves, and their families. So they’re keeping schtum… at the expense of the rest of us.
This happening in Ireland, and all over.

This generation has had more opportunities then previous generations. Granted with what’s coming down the road some of those opportunities will be lost.

You’re setting up a straw man argument. Trying to discredit anyone who may criticise your argument by calling them cheap, populist and narrow-minded. Look up argumentum ad hominum. And it is the welfare state and cradle to grave mentality that has given us the ponzi schemes in the form of public pensions and social welfare. People have been saying for years that government spending and social welfare are not only unsustainable but will lead to bankruptcy. Those that won’t listen just continued to kick the can down the road.

.

Utopia ideas often end in bloodshed. How do we go about getting this better world?

Wealthy people do the economy a great service, providing they achieved their wealth through honest means. Wealthy people will save their money, which is loaned out to start ups and existing businesses. They may invest their wealth in an enterprise, generating jobs and further wealth or they may spend it, again generating jobs throughout the economy.

Yes, they do know it is unfair and rotten to the core but a lot of those same people were in the centre of that and not looking in from outside as hapless victims. The same people who voted in corrupt politicians and councillors because of parish pump politics. The same people who want the sun, moon and stars from politicians when they must have known deep down that they were undeliverable and the same people using cheap credit to consume and live way beyond their means. What they didn’t know though, that it was all unsustainable.

The pursuit of individualism and a healthy society are mutually exclusive. A balanced compromise is essential. When you have rampant individualism/self-interest combined with the expectation that society will pick up the tab, then you know you’re in trouble. And it’s not just individualism. Even more pernicious is the banding together of highly organised like-minded individuals determined to parasitise the community at large. That’s our problem. in a nutshell.

A welfare state combined with rampant individualism is a recipe for disaster. But a welfare state where there is a deeply embedded culture of social solidarity, i.e. where individuals are prepared to sacrifice some of their individualism in the interest of their fellow citizens is a recipe where economic and social progress go hand in hand. As Scandinavia and Germany have long demonstrated.

Unfortunately, there has never been a history of that in Ireland. Fianna Fail have been able to buy elections because the Irish people are there to be bought. Faced with a choice between a McCreevyite tax cut or pension increase or the creation of a social insurance based healthcare system like the one the electorate had in 2002, most people opted for the former.

It will be interesting to see what results (if any) this element of Germany’s budget pruning has on the culture of social solidarity in that country:

timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article7142992.ece

I also wonder, in the context of McWilliam’s comments on the German “perpetual students” mentioned in the article above, what effect this will have on the ability of younger Germans to avoid the “real world”.

Weren’t they able to put off national service till they were done in college? Did that include PhDs?

I would imagine this ‘ennui’ is ot confined to young people or spanish people…

The New Age travellers were the response to the late 80’s early 90’s recession in Britain. Step out of the system and hit the road.

I feel it today myself.

As a 40 something hard working senior project manager 20 years in International construction, I sort of feel whats the point…

I have sweated blood and guts to live the modest lifestyle i have. Got educated and got out of ‘dear old ireland’ as soon as I could in mid 80’s.

Never looked back and met a wonderful world of people everywhere on great projects.

And ever so glad to have side stepped the bottomless pit of penury which the Irish political and financial class has sentenced the people in the last 2 years.

However one bad day and I could go to prison for a long time for acts of negligence, errors and ommisions resulting in death or injury to either my co-workers or 3rd parties.

Meanwhile I see our talentless corrupt and self serving bankers and politicians waltz into the sunset with billions of taxpayers dollars having ruined hundreds of thousands of lives, awarding themselves multi-million dollar bonuses.

I mean who exactly is the sucker here?

Anyone else feel the same way?

Turn on, tune in and drop out’ as Timothy Leary so sagely advised may indeed be the route to go these days.

You bet ya!

Is DMW arguing that increased qualifications and an experience of the world are not valuable experience and learning opportunities? Well, I suppose someone who does a phd in english lit and spends a year drinking on bondi beach will not be particularly employable because of it, but equally someone who has a masters in business and has seen how business is done in other countries, maybe even learned a bit of another language, or someone with qualifications in engineering spending some time in Germany/Japan/US/China and working there, will be much more employable back in Ireland. Moreover, many of the innovations that we see come from people travelling around the world, seeing different things and different ways of life. Overall, travel and education are not just the idle occupations of the decadent west, but are vital parts of creating entrepeneurs and innovators (as well as being fun).