Stamp Duty Bill - Details Published

Sore loser :smiley:

I, probably in common with several posters here, have enough funds to buy a decent gaff in Dublin without a mortgage and I don’t have a place to sell. However, there is no way that I am prepared to “move fast” and pay over the odds, period.

They do that in Knock, sorry Ireland West, too. Except it’s 10 Euros. I quizzed the girl at the information desk about it, asking why they didn’t just add it to the taxes and charges of the airline ticket and she blamed the airlines, I told her I thought that was a load of rubbish. She then started to just repeatedly ask me ‘do you want to fly today or not’ really aggressively. I said I did but before I left could I have a comments form and could I ask her name, at this point she got really wound up and started to ask Why?, and then accused me of being aggressive and telling me ‘they won’t let you on the plane if you’re drunk and aggressive’, I pointed out I had driven to the airport, and was driving from the far side so hadn’t anything to drink. We left it that. I’m not flying out of Knock ever again.

Knock Airport - “On a wing and a prayer”

Pil wrote:

I’m not suggesting that anyone pay over the odds. All I’m saying is that for the first time in years I’m seeing houses offered and thinking to myself, “That isn’t a completely outragious price”. They are in the ball park.

This is encouraging to me because I still think we’re in the very early stages of price drops. Up until now I’ve known houses cost more than I would be willing to pay, but I wasn’t sure whether prices would fall quick enough and far enough that I would be willing to buy.

Looking at Waterford and the market in general I’m now convinced that it’s not going to be simply a case of picking up somewhere at a fair price, there are going to be bargains to be had. I believed that would be that case, but I wasn’t confident about it.

The point about being able to move fast is simply that in a market like this, those trying to sell their own property are exactly the kind of buyer you don’t want. Someone with the cash ready to go and no house to sell can often drive a better bargain.

Everyone who hasn’t started already should be saving their asses off trying to get together the biggest lump of capital they can, because events of the next couple of years are going to reward you.

Believe me, the investors who took their money and ran are sitting patiently waiting to re-enter if the opportunity arises.


Looking at prices in Waterford in more detail. There seems to be a divide.

The older houses in the city are relatively cheap, 3 beds for about 180K. There was even a 3 bed in Ballybeg going for 135K, claiming to have a rental yield of 7800. It would take more than 5.7% to get me to buy something in ballybeg, or any estate beginning with “bally”.

I’m assuming that with many of these places a lower offer would be accepted.

On the other hand the newer apartments are still rediculously overpriced. 2 bed apartments for 300K, 500K and more.

I can’t understand how prices like that can make sense when anyone I’ve spoken to in Waterford is telling me the place is full of empty apartments.

It seems to me that investors who bought in before the big building binge are more likely to own the older properties, and they have more room for movement on price. Similarly people selling houses they’ve inherited or have lived in for years probably can afford to come down in price.

Many of the new apartments would have been bought at the peak of the prices and the sellers can’t bare, or can’t afford to drop the prices.

Surely though, if people can get any number of houses with 3 or more bedrooms for over 100K less than a 2 bed apartment, at some point the apartment prices have to cave in.


Does Clowen give out free money? :slight_smile:

On news report on rte last night, it said that the FTB stamp duty measure based on last years stats affects only 2000-3000 of 37,000 that bought last year, thats about 5-8% of FTB’s would be overjoyed and rush in to buy now!

Considering that last years FTB’s would have more earning power to afford a place at '06 price than a FTB pre '06 for example, it concludes that there are hell of a lot of FTB’s out there that this measure does NOT affect than a sum of 34,000 buyers.

I’m not an FF supporter, but I have to say I really admire the way they dealt with the stamp duty issue during the election. I think it was a stroke of pure brilliance.

First they wait to hear the proposals of the other parties as the media whips up the stamp duty issue to a storm. They see that most of the media hysteria is about first time buyers. So they make a proposal which meets all first time buyers’ needs and (on the face of it) appears more generous than the proposals of the other parties. Thus, they claim that the SD issue has been sorted two weeks before the election, and they are right as it dissappears from the front pages.

Now, I think most people on this forum agree that SD is actually a tax on the seller, not the buyer. In other words, when SD is reduced, the price of the house will increase. So the total paid by the purchaser remains the same. This is why SD is probably actually good as it means that the government gets a cut of the crazy capital appreciation on PPRs in the form of SD, rather than letting the seller pocket it all. Lets be honest, CGT on PPRs is politically a total non-runner, so SD will have to do, though it’s alot more crude.

As everyone is now “discovering” (even though it was pointed out before the election), most FTBs don’t pay SD anyway, so the FF reforms will have minimal impact. And that’s what they wanted anyway based on all of Cowen’s statements before the “U-turn”. And not only that, when people come moaning about the effect of SD on the housing market, FF can turn around and say “we gave ye what ye asked for before the election, ye can’t expect us to be going and making more changes to the SD system”.

Hats off to Bertie and Biffo.

I’m inclined to agree Persius.

Effectively, they’ve killed off all the speculation about stamp duty without really changing anything in practice.

€40m isn’t gonna kickstart a bloated multi-billion euro property market. When you think about it, €40m will buy you just 133-odd €300k houses… a drop in the ocean against the 43k for sale on daft.