State Pension costs unsustainable?


Bill for State pensions ‘could rise by nearly €200 million per year’ … -1.2285235

Well they rose 268m from 2012 to 2013, so no great shocker there


TDs ‘would support’ extra €5 a week for pensioners … 47449.html


This would happily reside in the auction politics thread.


TinTin wants more taxes, again … -1.2312704


The levy on private pensions was a line in the sand. Here’s a scathing article from 2013 about it: … 6921.shtml



I said this is in Sep 2012 and Leo now agrees with me! … -varadkar/

Press release … 80716.aspx


Are State Pensions unsustainable? Here’s hoping so… for some at least

McAleese, Ahern and Cowen each paid €137,000 State pensions
Former president receives biggest payment of any former office holder or politician … -1.2745603

Good to see Sutherland getting a mention…he last served as AG in 1984, 32 years ago!


When you think a teacher with 40 years service might end up with 32 k a year…

David Cameron’s pension


The pensions paid to former presidents, etc, are not state pensions. They are *occupational *pensions for carrying out a particular job. Yes the schemes were always incredibly generous and have turned out to be more than the recipients ever thought they were worth. But they cannot be reduced as they are an accrued property right. This is a constitutional thing.

Say for example Peter Sutherland had been given his entire attorney general pension pot in 1986 in Apple shares. This would have worked out *far *better than his pension ever has. Would the state have the right to confiscate some or all of it because of his good fortune?

PS: rules were changed (and correctly so) in 2009 I think so that office holders have to accrue much more service and wait until retirement age to claim.


Only mostly true. They can for example be taxed.

Also they can be reduced for future holders.


FF would like to increase this pension by €5 if you believe anything this paper writes … .03.10.png
but then on the other side another side FG would like to reduce the pension for those who contribute little in the way of PRSI or taxable income … .45.47.png

It seems that pensions are one of those things that the politicians feel they can bribe votes with where the votes don’t feel venal or feel like they have been bribed as, after all, they worked for their pensions even if “worked for it” means having existing from school leaving age until retirement age doing nothing particularly gainful if at all to become eligible for a non-contributory penison.

Here in Germany there is talk of the need to increase retirement age to 69 for those who have not put aside enough in their state retirement fund to finance their expected retirement duration.


There has been a levy on pensions in payment since 2011 I think. It is quite progressive.

The system has plenty of silly wrinkles. Enda Kenny has something like 46 years in the public service and would get his pension if he retired tomorrow.

He is not accruing any pension rights and cannot ‘defer’ the pension he is forgoing by continuing to hold office.


State Pensions going up €5 a week from today

Updating the figures in the first post from 2012

State Pension Contributory with a 2012 Estimate(pg184 on) of 3.75bn and growing (up 130m from 2011 alone) 2017: 4.92bn

In comparison, the combined cost of Jobseeker’s Allowance and Benefit is 3.5bn . 2017: 2.4bn

With pension costs going up each year this huge cost must be tackled. And soon.

We also fund the
State Pension Non Contributory (967m) 2017: 995m, and
State Pension Transition (154m). 2017: 159m

Then there is
Widow’s Pension Contributory (1.34bn), 2017: 1.47bn and
Widow’s Pension Non Contributory (18m) 2017: 14.2m


It’s bonkers but will never be tackled by any politician here, best hope is the IMF sort it out next time around.

Future pension increases to be capped under Fine Gael plans

FF vows a ‘fight to the death’ over FG plans to link pension to inflation

Fianna Fáil’s social protection spokesman Willie O’Dea told the Irish Independent he would “fight to the death” to prevent the move towards indexation.

“A lot of people on pensions in this country from the Department of Social Protection are at or below the poverty line. If you just index pensions for inflation, you’ll lock them into poverty,” he said.

Finance Minister Paschal Donohoe has begun work on Budget 2020, but needs support from Fianna Fáil to get it through the Dáil under the Confidence and Supply arrangement.


That doesn’t include the substantial cost of pensions for the state/semi-state sector, most of which are versions of Defined Benefit. For example, I believe over one third of Teagasc’s annual budget now goes on pensions.


More signs of a drip drip default on pensions

Hike in pension age to 68 is a case of ‘too far, too fast’ - Ictu

The Government has been accused of “going too far, too fast” by hiking the age that workers will qualify for the State pension to 68.

In a new report, the Irish Congress of Trade Unions (Ictu) gives a damning indictment of the policy and calls on the coalition to reverse its decision.

The changes mean workers will not qualify for the state pension - almost €13,000 a year - until they are 67 from 2021. In 2028, they will not be eligible until they are 68.

Ictu’s executive council report says it is particularly concerned about those who are unfit or financially compelled to continue working beyond 65 due to increases in the qualifying age.

The report, published ahead of the opening of its biennial delegate conference in Dublin today, notes that less than half of all workers have a pension to supplement their State pension. But some 90pc of public sector workers do, compared with just 35pc of private sector workers.

"While increases in the pension age are taking place in many countries, Ireland is currently on course to have the highest pension age in the OECD in 2028," it says.
**> **
> However, it said we currently have the second lowest pensioner to worker dependency ratio in the EU27.
**> **
> This means there are more workers to support pensioners through their taxes than most EU countries.

However, the Government’s ‘Roadmap for Pensions Reform’ predicts the number of pensioners will more than double and the ratio of workers to pensioners fall to just two to one in the next 40 years.

“Congress has been firm in our position that government is going too far, too fast and needs to reverse its decision to implement increases to the pension age,” said the report.

The report notes that the Government is reviewing the cost of pension tax relief on workers’ social insurance contributions to the Exchequer.
**> **
> It warns of its “grave concern” that staff on wages worth just three-quarters of average pay or above may be hit by the cuts.
**> **
> This is because those with yearly wages of more than €35,300 get relief at the higher 40pc tax rate.
**> **
> But Ictu points out that a full-time worker’s average earnings are €45,611 - more than €10,000 higher.

There were 717,300 workers claiming pension tax relief in 2015, the latest year for which figures are available.

“The average annual earnings were €45,611 for a full time worker,” said the report.

“Any reduction in the rating of tax relief would adversely affect every worker earning above three quarters of the average wage, which is a matter of grave concern for congress.”

It backed the Government’s proposed new auto-enrolment scheme that will mean workers without a pension will become members.


Contributory Pensions cost 6.7bn in 2018.

Another 1.02bn was spend on the non contributory pension (pg 20 below)

So we are now at 7.7bn total pension costs in 2018 and rising…


Pension Coverage 2019

In Quarter 3 2019, almost six in every ten (59.8%) of all workers aged between 20 and 69 years had supplementary pension coverage.

Of the workers who don’t have a pension 60% expect to rely on the State Pension on retirement

So 40% do not have a pension, of which 60% are fully reliant on the 13K a year State Pension, which we know is going up each year and must be dealt with at some point