Struggling to Rent - "Don't Mention Sustainable Immigration" - David Quinn


#1

"Do we properly consider the present effect of immigration on the cost of housing, on jobs, school places, hospitals, wages? For example, figures from the Dublin Regional Housing Executive show that in 2017 almost 1,000 additional families sought emergency accommodation. Of these, 12% were from the EU and 21% were from outside the EU. That’s a big number. Is it not putting a strain on the system? Are we allowed to ask whether Irish people at the bottom of society are being further disadvantaged as a result?

"A recent report by Future Analytics Consulting on behalf of the Dublin Housing Observatory estimates that the capital’s population could rise by up to 64,000 by 2022 compared with 2016. Some of this will be immigration-driven. If you add in Fingal, south Dublin and Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown, the number could increase by 150,000 since 2016.

"The report says that our housing and transport infrastructures are struggling to cope with the present level of population. Who is affected by this? Anyone living in the Dublin area obviously, but especially those struggling to rent property or buy a first home. That means many Irish-born people, especially the young, but also immigrants already living here. How fair is high immigration on them? Again, we’re not allowed to raise the issue.

"Figures from the Central Statistics Office show that, in the 12 months to April last year, 90,000 people moved to Ireland and 56,000 left, meaning net inward migration of 34,000. That is the biggest annual increase since 2008.

"Almost a third of the immigrants were Irish people coming home, another third were from the EU and the remainder were from outside the EU. While 10,000 non-EU migrants left Ireland, almost 31,000 arrived.

"These facts, and more, need to be put before the public. Maybe it can be demonstrated that our current immigration levels are sustainable. Maybe no one is losing out. Maybe everyone is a winner. Yet we cannot know unless we are willing to have a debate and not simply shout down those who ask the right questions, as is our current practice."

Read More Here (Paywall) - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/david-quinn-dont-mention-sustainable-immigration-2rs7srzxg


#2

Our landlord has given us notice. Our rent in a new place will likely double meaning we have to leave Dublin. My wife will leave her nurse job and the kids uprooted from school. At the same time more and more Chinese and Indian people are flooding Dublin with tech jobs. So Dublin is now a city where natives on 100k combined cant afford to live. This is what we have come too.


#3

I feel your pain - I see it in the people who I work with. I had the same issue trying to rent in the 1980s - but at that time all the immigrants were from the Irish countryside or from the North.

“Your society’s broken, so who should we blame?
Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it?
No , let’s blame the people with no power and no money and these immigrants who don’t even have have the vote.
Yea, it must be their fucking fault”
Iain Banks


#4

Calling for debates on sustainable migration levels is not blaming migrants.


#5

Replace the word taxes with rent and this discussion is straight out of Mayor Quimby’s playbook.

Your rent is too high because of immigrants…


#6

Hmmm people from the country and the north were “immigrants” were they

We really need a thread to keep track of all the words that have changed meaning radically but gradually in recent years

  1. “Homeless” - now it means anyone who doesn’t want to deal with rental supplements and landlords and only wants a “forever home”
  2. “Immigrant” - see above
  3. “Gender”
  4. “Marriage”
    5 “job” and “gig”
  5. “Refugee”
    Etc

#7

@GameBlame
I think in the context of @metalmike 's comment, “immigrants” might make more sense in the non-literal way. That’s the way I read it anyway.


#8

That’s my point. There is simply no right way to use the word “immigrant” about people from the country and the north. But if you mix things up and seek parellels between those who move with no connection to this country and those who do, then you subtly nudge the word “immigrant” toward a corrupt broader meaning. Until it has no meaning really, in a meaningful sense !


#10

For the record - I found this old image dating back to May 2008 taken form the original daftwatch, it’s the supply graph plotted against time.

As of posting:

Daft’s Mobile website UI indicates 8,523 properties to rent.

The website however indicates, 2,885 properties.

If you choose all ireland and no specific criteria on the mobile website, then you get 2884 ads.

I have no idea right now, how that figure of 8,523 properties is derived.

Maybe @ps200306 can clarify or someone else?

Imagine, we have record breaking rents at a time of record low supply.

Who could have foreseen this problem?

Sure, I guess we are where we are. :icon_neutral:

Demand or Government interventions obviously have nothing to do with reality. :whistle:


Further info and as of posting - Dublin (City) daft stats:

Apts - 791
Houses - 425
Studio - 72
Flat - 25


While it seem apparent but there is a chance I’m missing something here, but right now it there appears to be nearly twice as many Holiday Home listings as there are Residential Rentals for all of Ireland on Daft, 5498 to be exact.

Finally, Commercial listings total for all of Ireland on daft.ie is 12,875.


#11

Indian workers can avail of getting tax refund for 2 years.


#12

Can you expand on that a bit, is it specific to Indian visas within Irish tax law or something their own government might cater to?


#13

Same for Chinese workers.


#14

You’re right blaming immigrants is not fair, but its clear that immigration is a lever the government can pull to push up rents and prices, do we really need to import taxi drivers from Pakistan, IMO if we can’t find people from Ireland or the EU to drive our taxis then maybe we should look at increasing taxi fares

I know someone from Croatia who wants to buy a house in Ireland because the rent he pays is crazy, so far the banks won’t lend to him, he says if he can’t buy a house in the next 18 months then he will leave, this maybe the plan, we just keep churning immigrants as they figure out the whole thing is a scam

The scam will continue


#15

Once again, do you know what tax mechanism applies to make this so?

Do you have a link to some info? Thanks.


#16

An Indian guy told me that he could work for 2 years post his Master’s he was doing here. I wonder is that what is being referred to here?


#17

Ah, I think what that is maybe is the relatively recent extension of the student visa program for India (maybe other jurisdiction too), come study for maybe 3 years or whatever and then get a bonus 2 year extension to work here. No idea if it’s tax incentivised but it’s clearly very attractive.

Maybe it was thought an easier way to today up illegal overstays among other things. :whistle:

There might be something in the media about it but I would be surprised if there was much, is there? I imagine Governments immigration policies details are rarely if ever gone over with a fine tooth comb by the media.

It’s not as if they trumpet policy from the rooftops!


#18

It applies to any visa national. http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/inis/pages/student%20pathway

To my mind it’s a sensible policy. The calibre of immigrant it attracts are likely to make a positive economic impact.


#19

Or possibly a really negative impact somewhere at 500 miles an hour

But most likely just lowering wages and increasing competition for housing.


#20

Exactly what magic can migrants do that indigenous cannot?


#21

@Blindjustice
https://dbei.gov.ie/en/What-We-Do/Workplace-and-Skills/Employment-Permits/Employment-Permit-Eligibility/Highly-Skilled-Eligible-Occupations-List/

It’s not that there are no citizens in Ireland that can do these jobs, it’s that there isn’t sufficient numbers of these skilled citizens.