Tax the rich - to 110%


#1

economic-incentives.blogspot.ie/ … eland.html

Quote? You’ll have to read it. It’s quite short and almost amusing. Unless you are ‘rich’ or indeed rich…


#2

I thought the numbers might be useful for graphs et al. so I OCR’d it and put it here:
docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc … y1Odm5YU2c

Added in some cumulative columns. Also put in a computed totals line, which differs from his totals by a couple of units, possibly due to unshown fractions.

It bears out the stats that the top 5% of earners pay over 40% of all tax, and the top 10% pay over 55% of it. Amazingly, the bottom 60% pay barely 5% of all tax, and the bottom 70% just over 10%… ultra-progressive!

https://i48.tinypic.com/mj9wt2.jpg


#3

very interesting


#4

A thousand words and all that… thank you.

If one added in payments from the state (e.g. from SILC) one would see that it is only the top 20% of earners that are net contributors. 80% are net beneficiaries… the welfare state, yep, that’s here…


#5

I tried something like this before and tried adding graphs for other countries to compare how progressive various countries were. I gave up after when the task escalated and I struggled to find out details on tax regimes overseas. Anyone on here working abroad able to dig out similar stats for where they are?


#6

Irish Times report that an “expert group” will present a suggestion to raise the PRSI rate on the self-employed to 17.3%.

Time to turn out the lights if they go down that road. Marginal rate of 68% on people who are supposed to be the entrepreneurs and create jobs.


#7

Yoganmahew and ps200306 - excellent work

So the top 32% (gross wage) earners in Ireland in 2011 paid a wopping 90% of all Income Tax.

We can’t continue the crazy situation where 36% of all workers are not ZERO Income tax each year.

Frankly, this tells me that we need to lower the Income tax threshold.

The UK have four tiers: 10%, 20%, 40%, 50%.

Of course we’re far too socialist a nation to ever bring in a 10% tax on the lowest paid.


#8

Remind me what it’s at now… I should know :blush:


#9

It’s somewhat complex for France, as everyone who’s employed seems to be paying at least 21% in social charges. Income tax is paid on your net, i.e. after deductions. I’ll try to dig out some statistics this week.


#10

I dunno what the IT story is getting at, but the current rates are, I think:
4% PRSI
7% USC
An extra 3% PRSI on income over 50k (or some other arbitrary amount…).


#11

There is a 10% USC rate for income over 100k but only if you are self employed. I dont think they even tried to justify the self employed clause. In my opinion it was but there as they are the least organised resistance group.


#12

Lowering the bands for when you pay higher PRSI would be a sneaky way to make more money.

People will find it quite hard to work out the cost until they get their first payslip in Jan.


#13

See viewtopic.php?f=4&t=46859&p=634932&#p634932

The rates of Universal Social Charge are:

• 2% - on the first €10,036
• 4% - on the next €5,980
• 7% - on the balance

There is a surcharge of 3% on individuals who have income from self-employment that exceeds €100,000 in a year, regardless of age.

The issue of low tax rates at lower income levels has been covered here before:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=46397&p=629626&#p629626
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=43237&start=83
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=43701&p=581963#p581963

As I said before, the three great fiscal sins of Ahern and Cowan, apart from their endemic corruption, lying and incompetence, were:

  1. Increasing public spending, especially public service salaries
  2. Reducing tax rates at the lower end by widening bands
  3. Narrowing the tax base

#14

When you include VAT, excise and other taxes, the poor pay a lot of taxes too.

The most important conclusion to draw from these figures, is that the overall tax burden on everyone, rich and poor is far too high. That reduces the incentives to produce and consume. Theres a strong incentive for everyone to just sit at home and surf the internet, and to not produce anything and to not buy anything.

To make the economy boom, we need to LOWER income tax on both rich and poor alike. That can easily be paid for by cutting state spending on public sector wages and pensions. There is no need for the state to be taxing and spending €30bn a year. Most of it is just wasted.


#15

Name three essentials, aside from fuel, the poor pay VAT on…

Excise is levied on fags and booze. It is a choice to pay it.


#16

Comes from this debate I think oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/ … endocument

It could be argued that public servants and public representatives are in some ways similar to the self-employed group. Unless I’m mistaken the only PRSI payment made is the employee one. How about we ask Minister Burton to pay a 17% PRSI rate herself?

Should the government be making an employer contribution? I think possibly they should. It’s a more honest way of funding PRSI once you’ve government employees looking to draw down from the fund - and often earlier than normal workers.

A self-employed person would like to get the state pension based on around a 4% contribution, as does your average TD– except the TDs will look for it as part of their pension which they’ll be drawing down before the age of 67.


#17

It’s funny but I thought socialisim was were the burden was shared for the common good.

To me it looks like the burden of funding the state is grossly shifted on to higher earners. All I hear from the media is that higher earners need to pay more when the above graph suggests that approximately 20% of earners are suporting 80% of the rest and the 80% want more without even recognising the support they already get.

Ireland is also the only state where socialists oppose a property tax and don’t care about a VAT increase.

It’s not socialism in Ireland, I think it would be more accurate to call it Entitleism or Fecklessism.


#18

White goods and adult clothes are two that come to mind. You might say the former aren’t actually essential, but life without a cooker and a fridge is pretty unpleasant.


#19

I’ve bought in my adult lifetime precisely two washing machines, two fridges, two freezers and two cookers; oh and two microwave. Of these half were second-hand… they don’t really wear out.

Clothes and shoes - yes.


#20

Oh, I’m not saying that VAT on fridges bought by the poor will keep the exchequer afloat, it’s just that you asked for examples and I provided them. :slight_smile: