The 200k levy on non resident rich folk, what will happen?

What will this cause to happen?

  • Government raises the €55 million no problems
  • High rollers change nationality and continue on as before
  • High rollers change nationality and relocate to new country 95% of the time so Ireland doesn’t even get their VAT etc.

0 voters

So what do people think the unintended consequences of this will be?

Will the rich just change nationality?

If I understant the rte feed from last night - if you are irish and live here or overseas and own 5M of Irish assets then you have to pay the 200k or loose your passport / citizenship. I don’t think that is constitional - 5 high rollers chip it 100 grand each and take a case. I’ll never fly

If they are non-resident here, how do the government ascertain their level of income ?

Token gesture for the headlines. No one is going to get caught by it and if they do they will either find a way around it or pay it to say they are patriotic.
The below article is a more accurate indicator of the government’s intentions for the wealthy (be they doms or non doms)…

independent.ie/national-news … 69517.html

Hint of U-turn on overseas executives’ tax

By Joe Brennan

Thursday December 10 2009

Plans to develop the IFSC into a European hub for the international funds industry were signalled in the Budget.

Finance Minister Brian Lenihan promised to bring forward changes in the Finance Bill “which will strengthen Ireland’s competitive edge in this important sector”.

This has prompted speculation in some quarters that Mr Lenihan may do an about-turn on his predecessor Brian Cowen’s controversial decision four year’s ago to scrap the so-called “remittance basis of taxation”.

The system had allowed executives working for overseas companies in Ireland to receive their salary outside the jurisdiction and only pay tax on the money they “remitted”, or brought into, the State to support themselves.

At the time, business lobby groups, including the American Chamber of Commerce in Ireland, which represents 600 US companies with operations in the State, warned that it sent out the wrong signal for multinationals looking to invest and sent top executives to Ireland.

Mr Lenihan said that “significant opportunities exist in the international financial services sector for centralising high value-added activity in Ireland as this sector restructures itself around the world after the global financial crisis”.

The much-feared imposition on the IFSC in light of the global crisis failed to materialise, with employment in the hub remaining relatively stable at about 25,000 last year.

There have been a number of calls for the Government to appoint an IFSC tsar to lead a rebranding of the centre, which has seen its image damaged by the domestic banking crisis.

Further development of the IFSC could also help reduce the 20pc vacancy levels in offices in Dublin and potentially boost the value of office blocks and commercial development sites underpinning so many of loans going into “bad bank” NAMA.

  • Joe Brennan

Irish Independent

Pff. Again with the details.

Look , Lenny said it will raise X million in extra tax so shut up with your whinging and stop trying to poke holes in the scheme. Lenny said and that should be enough for yis.

:angry:

Edit; For spelling, very hungover.

It’s just a stupid stunt to appease the Beards by “hitting the rich”. It’ll probably never be implemented, if implemented never enforced, and will be lucky to bring in €5m a year.

More crazy stuff from Loony Lenny.

I think all that will really happen is alot of the philanthropic actions taken by the likes of JP McManus etc will dry up and these guys will pay the tax out of the money they would have otherwise done something with for their pet projects.

I doubt its enough to make any of them hand in their passports - they are big fish in small pond here, alot of them with the government in their pocket, why would they leave for 200k p/a?

Hold on a sec, I work for an overseas company. Does that mean I’ll only have to pay tax on my remittances? A-bund buying here I go…

I wonder will they value Irish Passports at €6 million, for tax reasons.

surely they’ll do what they always do and find a loopwhole to avoid paying more money?

I’m just curious how people think they will wriggle out of it.

The item on the RTÉ page says

Watch for the legal implementation, it will be interesting to see how they define ‘domicile’ and ‘tax residency’, and the possible resultant fight of capital from the State backed Irish banks.

Blue Horseshoe

they wont need to define these - my understanding is that the principle of domicile (more particulary non-domicile) is well established in law - not certain what the legal definition is but if you are born here of irish parents, arse around with an irish passport and have a home here you would be an irish domicile im pretty sure - that would cover all of the targets for this tax.

they’ll initially wriggle out of it by not holding the assets in the state directly - probably hold assets over 5 million via foreign holding company, family trust or spouse. Probably will be easy for this to be avoided in the first year but importantly I think that it will mean that the exiles will have an obligation to make a tax return and declare that they dont not qualify which can then lead to closing up the loopholes (the usual run around) - that’s step two of any new tax. Uncomfortable as I am agreeing with anything this bunch of FFers do, at least this is a first step in establishing the principle that if an irish person and their irish family avail of the state’s facilities then you need to pony up some cash.

dont think there’s a constitutional problem here - if they dont pay then the revenue via courts can seize assets. If they dont want to pay they always have the opportunity to renounce citizenship. Its not a case of someone being stripped of the passport rather they need to strip themselves of it to avoid the tax.

Good move certainly if jp (the legend) and the rest of them spend 200k less on the likes of the “sporting limerick” and the taxpayer ends up borrowing less.

anybody of Irish nationailty who maintains a residence in Ireland will be classified as domicilled here

As an exile (pre celtic tiger), I’m wondering what this means for those of us in the same situation. Not worried, since far from a millionaire, but I’d be loth to have to give even any information to the Irish taxman.

Also, Ireland is one of the few countries in the world where exiles don’t have a vote. I had a long drunken argument with JP Bowman on this, with his clincher argument being that exiles don’t pay tax, so shouldn’t have a say in the running of the country. If now FF want to tax exiles, shouldn’t we get a vote? (Independently of whether we fall into the tax bracket or not). Otherwise, we should have another Boston Tea Party revolt! No taxation without representation!

Feck that, I’ll just apply for French citizenship (with the advantage of being able to vote against Sarko next time around).

I think we should adopt the US system. If you have Irish citizenship, then you make a tax return here and pay tax.

And you get a vote for your troubles!

Do you know any more about how the US systems works?

e.g. say a US citizen is on PAYE in Ireland. What additional tax are they liable for in the US?

I dont’ know a lot about it. But an American freind of mine who used to live here was telling me about it. He had to make a tax return while he was living here but it was effectivly zero dollars as the amont he was earning could be offset against a load of tax deductable things. It pays to have a good lawyer there. The Irish tax he paid here may have been included in the tax deductibles, I don’t know for sure though.

U.S. citizens and residents are subject to U.S. income tax on their worldwide income. If the country you’re living in has a tax agreement with the US (Ireland does) you can offset tax paid here that against any liability.

I wouldn’t worry about getting a bill, federal tax rates are a lot lower over there by the looks of things
moneychimp.com/features/tax_brackets.htm

On residence and domicile:
citizensinformation.ie/categ … in-ireland