The 8th Amendment thread -- who said what


#1

[Post removed…]


#2

Out of interest what category did you have me in?


#4

Ok, I think I only said I’d vote NO once, and whilst I leaned closer towards it as time went on, in the end I remained on the fence as I stated was my instinct originally and did not vote either way.

Depending on the point of your analysis, my 50 odd posts skew your findings a little.

And by the way I knew that you knew that I’d be first. Maybe I have missed you. Every time you take a break from the Pin I picture you as Stephen Fry, welcome back :smiley:

Edit to add - but if voting was compulsory, I would have voted NO, so maybe not that skewed.


#5

Not surprising really. When you’re outnumbered two-to-one there’s a lot more shite to counter.


#6

So what’s the lesson to be learned them?


#7

Short answer, people who are defending (in a losing battle) are more likely to fight harder than those attacking.


#8

Also there wasn’t enough Russian troll farms to swing the vote?

Or there isnt enough abortion threads


#10

You mean to say it went downhill after you took hiatus? :smiley:

I dont think it was that bad to be honest. There was an attempt to grapple with some issues that went well beyond the simple ‘babykillers’ and ‘hard cases’ default positions. It probably ramped up in volume the two days in advance of the vote but overall it was fairly civil.

Re your point about the ‘liberal agenda’ and the media, I dont think the Pin is representative (at least in terms of those who actually contribute) of broader views expressed across media generally…and I dont see why it should be necessarily. The broader media (and its hangers on) appeared to be very much pro-regime throughout.

Your point about free speech and the No campaign is well made however. To have representatives of Catholicism and assorted hangers on front centre in such a debate is a turn off for most people.

In fact, Id say the so-called ‘liberal elite’ (and thats actually undeniably what they are now) have been very well served by the existence of such relics in Ireland since at least the 1990s. All it requires is for somoeones religious credentials to be pointed to and they are basicaly rendered irrelevant or a paedophile/woman hater/baby kidnapper etc.

As a result, despite the fact that I would have voted No if I had a vote, I think to finally rid the stage of the likes of Iona would be positive. Personally Id like to see a genuine alternative based in the principles of rationality and democratic debate emerge to oppose what will be the inevitable challenges to freedom of expression, as well as the comings assaults on the education and legal systems that will follow this result. That means getting the likes of Mattie McGrath and Ronan Mullen off the stage and finding some new blood, preferably non-religious folk.

Even from your own perspective surely you’d welcome a superior level of public engagement and debate?


#11

This is fascinating! I’m only surprised that we were so representative of the wider community.

I wonder how many people changed their minds through the course of the campaign/thread. I started as a Yes, wavered a bit in the middle (the ‘eradicate Down Syndrome’ claims made me pause), and then became a hard Yes in the final fortnight or so.

But overall, like the rest of the country, it’s safe to say few minds were changed here.

p.s. Fintan O’Toole has a good piece on why the winning side shouldn’t be dicks to the minority.


#12

I thought the debate was quite civil, given the depth of feelings involved.

It certainly fell far short of tabs vs spaces acrimony.

What I’ve learned from this thread is that I definitely need to get out more.


#13

@Mantissa fascinating thread.

Data is everything, without it you are just another person with an opinion!

I’m just disappointed I didn’t make the top 10. Obviously I was going for quality over quantity :wink:


#15

I participated in dialogue elsewhere on the internet but with the shite I saw posted here I mostly just walked away.


#17

My motive for participating was to make clear that misogynistic views will not, and should not, go unchallenged. Did I expect to ever make them understand my viewpoint? No. However, there may well have been plenty of people reading, but not participating, and I felt it important that there not be a corner of the internet where women, and their rights, could be trashed without question. It was, of course, a futile thread in terms of the participants ability/willingness to actually engage at all, let alone constructively, but it may have had an impact on unknown readers. I hope, at least, that those with misogynistic tendencies (readers) took away an understanding that women will not entertain their views anymore. Expect push back.


#18

imho that’s 1 problem /w internet & internet discussions & info society we are living in 2018…

How do you know it’s shite?..you have to read it 1st and engage to understand what’s being said.
If you take 1 look at discussion and say no, not getting involved… you can’t fairly criticize discussion.

Then if you go to where you find discussions you agree with… you’re living in a filter bubble.

its a catch 22, time is valuable too.


#19

This is fantastic, thanks Mantissa.

I’m v surprised there were only 100 from Open Window :laughing:


#20

I don’t recall seeing any misogynistic views on the thread. I did see some people who think it’s misogynistic to say that killing babies is bad.

Did I expect them to understand my viewpoint? Sure I did. It’s not difficult to take the time to understand another person’s viewpoint. I certainly understood theirs – the abortion debate really isn’t that complex.


#21

Indeed, well done to Mantissa Analytica for taking the time and effort to crunch the numbers. The y/n %'s were very interesting.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_intelligence


#22

Thanks Mantissa, it was interesting to consider and I was surprised I even made that many posts. I looked back over it and probably contributed more at the start than at the end. I think from the reports of the Citizens Assembly onwards I felt the matters raised and discussed there covered all my voting concerns and probably felt little need to trash it out here.


#23

It was nice to see that the pinsters i admire live in the same locality. I better be nice to the strangers I bump into when oot’n’aboot.


#24

When was this revealed?