Protest planned for today at 1pm outside the GPO.
Its not even anglo tapes they are john bowe tapes. Not a peep from seanie yet.
The German savers and pensioners should take some responsibility for where they put their investments. They gave their money to a basket case company with shit fundamentals. It was a private company. It went bust. Irish taxpayers are paying them out of money they were never entitled to be repaid from. The German politicians should be told to go and f*ck themselves.
John Bowe sounds bright enough to me if a bit naive in how open he was on the phone. Note how many times Fitzgerald manages not to incriminate himself. He even quotes Bowe’s question back to him rather than answer in one instance. The big problem is he didn’t tell the Regulators the truth and allow them to make the call to let Anglo perish. That is a very big problem, even if he thought the regulators were morons. It sounds to me that he is being offered up as the most tasty morsel and this is possibly because he said it like it was and forgot he was being recorded.
Whenever I see these GPO gatherings I am always struck by the thought that according to accounts from people who were there, that at the beginning of the 1916 rebellion, the rebels were looked on as mad men, and they were spat on, informed on and laughed at by the Irish public and all their newspapers and those who took it upon themselves to speak on behalf of the Irish people in the mainstream. When they first gathered at the GPO, this is exactly the treatment they received from the Irish public. They were jeered at, and they were even spat on. It wasn’t until they started butchering them up in Dublin castle and the commands and shots were heard echoing through the streets of Dublin that public opinion changed.
What I understand from this, an what I understand as the significance of the GPO, is that the enemy ought to be understood as the prevailing public opinion. ( “It was the ambition of these idealists to awaken a lethargic and indifferent Irish population to an ideal of freedom”). I think this current renewed focus on the bankers is wrong-headed. What is really important is government collusion, and the social and business mores prevailing and promulgated at the time by every single Irish institution bar none; who were Anglo’s major Irish deposit holders and implications of same. But, this thing is being spun as the bankers pulling the wool over the eyes of our government and their agents. That is completely wrong. What these tapes represent is a small insight into or a microcosm of the mindset of basically the whole country during the property investment ‘boom’. Or at least, what the ‘air’ of the country consisted of during the time of this.
I continue to look on this Anglo tape affair with a huge amount of skepticism.
You have articulated my feeling very precisely. The failure of so many of the states functions is glaringly obvious, and yet nothing has been done to change the system to improve it.
I notice today in the interests of not prejudicing an upcoming trial, they cut out one name, a name that’s so obvious the edit was redundant. There’s only one candidate who Bowe could imagine sayin “A great day, a great buzz in the dealing room. Everybody’s tail was up. Fantastic” and for Drumm to reply “Oh yeah, did I lose him a billion euro”
It’s going to be difficult for them to keep find interesting tapes that avoid interfering with our slothful “justice” system
Obviously it’s not fit for your purposes or mine.
But I’d wager it’s fit for somebody’s purpose, and they’re not going to rush to change anything.
Who was the donkey they were referring to? Neary?
While I was in doubt before it seems that Bowe was mapping out the strategy and was a co-conspirator rather than an enthusiastic henchman.
I think the time for worrying about interfering with our justice system has passed. They’ve had five years and quite obviously have no intention of bringing serious charges. This is when we need the media to step in.
Or one decent person on the inside, a guard, a journalist, hell maybe even a banker, could dump the whole lot into wikileaks and allow people like Namawinelake or a few of the more knowledgable posters on here to go through it.
Also I think this fear of prejudicing a trial is overplayed. By that logic if I murdered someone on live television I could not be prosecuted because everyone would have made up their minds on my guilt.
I don’t think they’ll be allowed to release Seanie tapes pending his trial. Remember that a lot of people are putting pressure on the Indo not to release these tapes.
I agree in part. However you cant get to the truth by just wishing it was different. View it as a chain, work on one link and eventually the chain is broken. There are obvious reasons the politicians and senior officials are not interested in dealing with the banks legacy as it exposes their flank. Excuse my mixed metaphors.
Ok but there are no tapes of drummer apart from conversations with bowe. What about conversations between drumm and the regulators/x/y/z. There are huge parts of the story missing without bringing seanie into it.
The reason for the taped phone calls would have been Bowe being from a capital markets background. I don’t think all coversations on the phones in Anglo would be taped, and if they were they wouldn’t be likely kept for that long unless the roles were of a trading nature.
Bowe was saying to Drumm that Drumm would be the donkey in the room. This is after Drumm’s bluster about arm swinging, demanding the moolah etc…
I think it’s becoming clear Anglo were effectively leaderless, Bowe while joking in the comment clearly saw Drumm as a liability - it’s not a comment any normal employee would risk with a CEO. Also his replies to Drumm sounded like he was a bit worried about Drumm’s state of mind. He wanted to get Drumm in 30 mins earlier for the regulator meeting to get a coffee and presumably try to steady Drumm.
Both were joking about Seanie Fitz in the today’s recording with Bowe mimicking Seanie’s blind optimism, so neither the chairman or CEO had any standing or respect within the company. Bowe or someone at his level may have been the effective CEO at this stage.
In the earlier Bowe-Peter Fitzpatrick call it sounded like Bowe took another dig at Drumm regarding an upcoming board meetin “Jasus, I hope he doesn’t decide he has to unburden himself”
Really? I’d understood that the jeering was at the end of the rebellion, when the rebels were being marched away, and it was because their actions had subjected the city to artillery bombardment and seriously disrupted the lives of townspeople.
i.e. The reaction of the mob was not because of the proclamation on Easter Monday, but because of the destruction and disruption that went on all week.
Anyone know when The Saturday Night Show is on again ?
Wishing what was different? That Ireland wasn’t a corrupt little country with the interests of a significant portion of it reliant on charging high rents and having high land costs? That our media wasn’t the scummy little enabler of these interests, the enforcer in the public mind of the privileges bestowed to those who live the good life off interest and rents?
Are you saying that to get to the truth, you need to play along in a game? Take what comes, and use that to ‘try’ and reach it? Well, I’m sorry, I think the game is the problem. I can quite clearly see what the truth is. I think the first step is to acknowledge the truth as clearly and explicitly as possible, even if that means self-incrimination, which it normally will. Only then is there much chance of changing it. There is one simple thing people can do to change things. *That is not to take part in the lie. *Now, to my mind, there is too much surrounding these tapes that is part of the lie, and obscures the essence of the truth of the situation. Therefore I would say, have nothing to do with this Irish Independent slash Fianna Fail slash vested interest economic rent seekers spin and games. The bankers were and are merely a product of their society. They were and are puppets in a bigger game of ideology, cultural mores, and values held. Until that truth is acknowledged, nothing will change.
No. They were jeered before, in their weekly marches around the city. Then, all through the reading of the declaration and during their rebellion. They were jeered because of the ideals they held, and their poor showing (badly fitting uniforms, youth and level of training). And because the Irish Times and the other newspapers and opinion makers of the day jeered them. The revisionism needed to justify the contempt they were held in as their legacy became clearer. What more old reliable justification than damage to property and interruption to business etc. Plus ca change, c’est la meme chose.
The suggestion that Bowe may have been the effective CEO without knowing it by reason of his being the only guy with half-a-brain is interesting. Bowe may now be heading for one hell of a long drawn out hiding in the media and in the Courts. He would have been better of being a half-wit, or at least letting on he was a half-wit like the rest of the Anglo executives (…and the Regulator, the Central Bank and the Department of Finance).