Fucking hell. You see the quotes there from Willie “like a bolt from the blue” O’Dea.
Quoting myself now.
If they abided by this we will have no problems going forward but I fear that if the regulator had been pro-active and doing his job in the last decade we wouldn’t have had the problem anyhow.
the regulations and provision for oversight was there but like everything else in Ireland the regulations weren’t enforced. I don’t see how this will be any different unless regulation is taken over by the ECB in Frankfurt. The Irish Government will always appoint their own man as regulator to go easy on their mates in the bank.
The bankers will always continue to operate recklessly and only realise they have broke their bank after their bank is broke.
Listening to tapes it appears that the bankers thought that somehow they could come out at the end of the process not smelling of shit even though they knew their bank was in bits; temporary ownership by Govt as custodian or being taken under the wing of a bigger bank would have been “honourable” exit scenarios for them.
The whole thing adds up to a classic Irish problem. I don’t personally believe in a malevolent explanation on the part of the government and regulator. Instead I believe they were a bunch of complete fucking morons, miles out of their league, and hoping that the problems would magically go away. Look at Neary’s famous Primetime interview – he is a classic Irish people-pleaser, saying things that we now know he had absolutely no way of knowing (given that he didn’t bother his hole to ask the right questions of the banks). By the way, I also assign a decent portion of the blame to the sizable section of the moronic Irish public who willingly participated in the whole property scam and loved it right up to the last minute.
How disingenuous is Eamon O Cuiv, DeValera’s off-spring in that Indo article
I was just re-reading some of that debate. They knew enough. Basically that all indications pointed to solvency being a large part of the issues, and the implications for that. Also, the kind of speculative high risk financial business culture that prevailed in Ireland at these banks. Here are some snippets. debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2008/10/01/00013.asp
Note Lenihan behaving in the exact same manner as the Anglotape bankers (on the public record) - a bravado type repeatedly laughing at the concerns and issues of those not ‘masters of the universe’ like himself and his cronies…
Here come the Indo and Fianna Fail again. That is what these tapes are all about.
More reports of ordinary people issuing statements in local Garda stations about three individuals under 2001 Criminal Justice Act. The evidence is the tapes, now in the public domain.
Drumm “If you want the f***ing keys now, I can give them to you. So I’m relaxed about it.”
Just listened to today’s installment. And there it is…Anglo give the Government & Central Bank the choice.
You don’t have to like Drum & Bowe (though I find them amusing - and fairly clear minded and spoken),
but the real villians have to be the idiots who gave them the money.
He clearly wasn’t relaxed though. I don’t get the impression of Drumm being a clear thinker from these recordings. I just hear him as stressed and childishly belligerent. Possibly heading into nervous breakdown territory. Bowe on the other hand usually switches off the humour and eventually gets down to the real reason for the phone call.
There was a third but fairly pointless recording released at noon today of 30 secs more of Drumm imagining what he’d say to regulator and must have a chunk edited out of middle because Drumm out of nowhere says to Bowe “What? You’re annoying me”.
so basically a bunch of German crooks gave a bunch of Irish crooks a load of dosh.
The Irish crooks proceeded to squander it all, so then with the protection of another set of Irish crooks they
managed to pass the ‘missing’ buck to Irish and German taxpayers.
And now we have taped recordings of the event, but another set of Irish crooks are doing their best to ensure
none of the earlier crooks get done.
got to go, the washing machine just beeped, those ‘white collar’ shirts are a bitch to iron.
Mike MyArse, surely?
As said , in the US at least some people, some times go to jail. In Ireland, almost never. The rule in the US is very simple, no widespread political overlap with the people or circumstances involved in the fraud and the prosecutions usually goes through promptly. Madoff despite his very powerful position in the financial establishment went to jail very quickly.
Some political involvement, like the S&L balls up, and it will take a while but quiet a few will get nailed. The Keating Five trials did their work (and most of the fallout was behind the scenes in DC) and at the state level quite a few indictments were pursued and successful. I was still reading about state S&L trials in the late 90’s. You rarely hear about the unsuccessful appeals by defendants a decade or so later.
The only frauds which are not pursued under the law in the US are those that reach deep into the bowels of both political parties and the establishment inside the beltway. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have (the prime movers in the sub prime debacle) had Anglo levels of pure fraud but because so many important politicians (most Dems it seems) have such long and compromising connections with the organizations at the root of the sub prime debacle nothing will be done. If they went after only the stock manipulation frauds at Fannie Mae that would end quite a lot of career in the House and Senate. But not going to happen because of the political angle.
Thats not saying the GS, JPM etc should not also have their clocks cleaned for chronic abuse of the Feds Discount window. The biggest single financial fraud I can think of. But not going to happen. Again because of the political angle.
So, in my opinion, I think a system that sends at least some of the perps to jail and usually scares the shit out of enough of the rest is superior to the Irish system that never sends the preps to jail and the rest have a cynical and well founded contempt for the rule of law. We need look no further than how the authorities dealt with the Ansbacher frauds to see how the system works. A slap on the wrist for those on the periphery (usually a tax demand) and those at the center get away with it. Just as they expected.
I was a regular reader of the online edition of The Exile from soon after it went live. Even bought the book of their greatest hits when it was published in 2000. The Exile was a very good read and always interesting. So I knew Tabbis work very very well before he returned to the US and hit the big time. The whore reviews were a semi regular feature, mostly by Ames, but I’m pretty certain that Tabbi did his own turns on occasion. If I remember correctly they were more voyeuristic and less brutal that Ames pieces.
Tabbi writes very well on many subject and often has a very interesting angle but by background, knowledge and temperament anything he writes on finance will always turn into a diatribe peppered with well turned phrases. So good for a frisson of moral outrage for the comfortable middle class readers of Rolling Stone, Mother Jones et al. But worth diddly in the bigger scheme of things when compared with the writings of Partnoy, Tett, or even Yves Smith. Their writings are informed and informative but not as witty and amusing as Tabbi. But far less ephemeral in the long run. The serious books do have a cumulative effect over time.
Unfortunately to my knowledge it is even more depressing than that.
It is more like:
Import some garlic without paying the full whack in terms of tax, get investigated, admit culpability almost immediately, co operate completely with the investigating authorities handing them all the evidence they need, then go to trial, plead guilty and get jailed for a number of years…
The guy tried to evade tax and got caught.
I do not have a problem with punishment for that, although what he was given was excessive when taking his co-operation into consideration.
My problem lies in the fact that the law broken is only in place to serve vested interests.
The tax goes up to 232%.
Just take a step back and let the idea sink in that vested interests have the ability to force you, the consumer, to pay 232% more, just in order to protect them.
Now ask yourself what other similar VI laws are affecting your life without your knowledge.
Evading tax is illegal, but not as much as levying a 232% tax !
The arrogant and teenage immature style of the anglo-_ankers (insert b or w as you see fit) is very similar to that of ahern, cowen, lenihan & co… they may have toned in down a bit for joe-public from the father ted level of “arse” “feck” and “nazi-german songs” but do you really believe that they were any different ? or will it take another 5 years and a tape recording to be “revealed” for the public to realize they were a seemless continuum…
To break the cycle of repeating past mistakes you must first realize what the mistake was …
It’s a cautionary tale for any would-be white-collar criminals all right – if you’re caught, shut the fuck up and admit nothing.
If they needed any assistance in building a case, they could do worse than listen to this, 19:35 to 24:22, paying particular attention to Mickey Clark at 22:30.
Any word on that protest?