The Anglo Tapes


#381

I’m of a similar vintage and went to a school where a lot of my peers would have progressed into the ‘steady job’ without going to university through nepotism- but everyone still sat the leaving, it does sound like a spiel- possibly covering up a set of sh*te results as he didn’t have to try too hard in the circumstances


#382

^ Seems more likely an Indo cock-up based on what sorehead said above.


#383

It’s shocking really…why had’nt the Gardai collected them in 2008. Why had’nt the Central Bank made any attempt to follow up on this in 2008. Why is the Govt only telling the banks to now hold on to what’s left of them? Where was the DPP in this?

This sums up for me what I always thought…there’s no stomach amongst any politician of any party, or of the people in power in the CS/PS to investigate the collapse and what we’ve heard over the past few weeks is just noise, as a result of the anglo tapes being leaked.
Shocking really, but not surprising 8-


#384

Have you guys thought this through? It is not the function of the Gardai to perform fishing expeditions and trawl through phone conversations on the off chance an offence might have been committed…is that the kind of country you want to live in? My understanding is they already had the Ango tapes because of the search warrant executed on foot of suspicion that offences had been committed…but that situation does not apply to the other banks.


#385

Regulator should be triggering them on suspicion of fraudulent activity if they had their finger on the pulse. Agree proactivity could become sinister especially from past experiences under Haughey and Doherty.


#386

Fair point about the Anglo/PTSB shenanigans, I forgot about that aspect.


#387

"]Upcoming trial of Anglo’s Sean Fitzpatrick ‘may have been jeopardised’

"]Anglo executives’ trial may have been ‘jeopardised’, court told

The Irish Times site is so completely unusable at this stage that I can’t find anything but I’ve no doubt there’s a headline there somewhere reporting a defense lawyers bullshit as fact.

We should all shut up asking questions in case we jeopardise trials which will never happen.


#388

"]Anglo executives’ trial may have been ‘jeopardised’, court told

The Irish Times site is so completely unusable at this stage that I can’t find anything but I’ve no doubt there’s a headline there somewhere reporting a defense lawyers bullshit as fact.

We should all shut up asking questions in case we jeopardise trials which will never happen.

So if I commit first degree murder, get someone to say ‘Hang the bastard’, can I then claim I can’t get a fair trial? Haughey should’ve gone down regardless of what was said, he still evaded tax, and took payments from businessmen.

Load of bullshit.


#389

The Irish Times site is so completely unusable at this stage that I can’t find anything but I’ve no doubt there’s a headline there somewhere reporting a defense lawyers bullshit as fact.

We should all shut up asking questions in case we jeopardise trials which will never happen.

So if I commit first degree murder, get someone to say ‘Hang the bastard’, can I then claim I can’t get a fair trial? Haughey should’ve gone down regardless of what was said, he still evaded tax, and took payments from businessmen.

Load of bullshit.

I actually think Martin Cahill did something very much like that & the case was throw out ?

I think he had someone go into the public gallery at the start of the trial & shout out something prejudicial.


#390

As others said, the people taken into the bank would have had to have had a leaving-cert, or whatever was the equivalent in the tech (back in the day).

Teachers I knew said in their experience the people they saw go straight to the bank were not the top guys, but the upper-middle (so not top of top stream class but bottom of top stream and the stream below). They didn’t want people too smart or demanding, since the work didn’t really offer that kind of interest and they’d be too hard to control.

Actuaries need to know a lot of maths, definitely, though I would have known that as a university entry area, at least in my professional lifetime. Cruel actuary joke: How do you spot an extroverted actuary? He looks at your shoes when he’s talking to you. (In my defence, it was told to me by an actuary, and also heard it told in reference to theoretical physicists)


#391

It is not my experience of the top performers in a school or academic environment are ever hard to control. Quite the opposite actually, its one reason why corporations are stacked up with yes men in top positions, many of them with impeccable academic credentials.


#392

Most of the theoretical physicists I studied with were really outgoing and friendly actually. Even the ones who ended up as actuaries!


#393

Nerd!


#394

Isn’t that the world we live in?

If I lived in Ireland, I’d be quite happy to see the Guards bending the law as much as necessary to put certain characters behind bars.


#395

Fishing expeditions would be to go through all bank phone calls every year and see if there’s something they might want to follow up on (including personal stuff).

But Anglo had so much stink coming off it post-bailout (e.g. paying people to buy shares, loans being shuffled around across accounting periods onto PTSB books and back, general madness of the collapse) that there had to be cause to do some digging. I mean, the share-manipulation alone should have given licence to start nosing through Anglo files.

To me, Anglo looks like a crime scene. The only question is “how many and precisely what crimes were comitted when and by whom?” And honestly, i don’t care if the Gardai went and did a fishing expedition through the whole institution, it was so crooked and so insane that everyone involved has questions to answer (c.f. interview questions thread, would love to have an Anglo employee in for interview, (a) can they say they could see writing on the wall? (if not they’re dumb as f or egregiously proud), (b) how did they feel about working there?.. it’s not that I wouldn’t hire someone from Anglo, but I’d want to see a good degree of reflection and awareness)


#396

+1 Col Max.

A couple of hacks from the Indo can run a few tapes and all the great and good from thje establishment starting shouting for tribunals and criminal investigations.
Surely the Gardai, when they went in to take files etc from Anglo should have taken these tapes also. They possibly contained critical evidence and should have been investigated. How could they not be checked!

Can’t understand some of the responses here from Pinsters


#397

Hold on a second. My post above was in reaction to posters questioning why the authorities had not already done a trawl through records of phone conversations held by treasury departments of all the banks. It was then pointed out to me that in relation to at least one other institution other than Anglo Irish, there was a good reason why they should have done so.

However, my point remains, there are no good legal reasons that I am aware of for the Gardai to be in possession of taped conversations from dealing desks at all the banks.

We all know the basic problem was too much real estate lending and insufficient controls on lending. I am at a loss to understand what the authorities doing a trawl through months or years of records of treasury conversations (I can spare them the bother, they will mainly find boring conversations about inter-bank deals and the like) is supposed to accomplish.


#398

"]** Independent party to investigate Anglo leaks – Noonan**

Minister for Finance Michael Noonan has revealed that telephone recordings of 18 employees of Anglo Irish Bank were handed over to garda fraud investigators three years ago.

So the Gardaí have the tapes since 2010? Makes you wonder what exactly they were looking for in February 2009 and October 2009. Is it the case that they were not permitted access to them and had to seek an additional court order?

Interesting post by Grumpy on the October 09 thread:

I don’t think there’s any way these recordings could be treated as legally privileged.


#399

"]“Why did Alan Dukes sing dumb?” Ms McDonald asked Tanaiste Eamon Gilmore. She also asked if the tapes had been provided to Peter Nyberg, who carried an earlier investigation into the banks.

Mr Gilmore said the “who knew what when” questions about the Anglo Tapes will gave to wait until a banking inquiry is set up.

Mr Gilmore said these were fair questions, but said they must be “put to people in a public forum”.

On what planet is that an acceptable answer?


#400

On what planet is that an acceptable answer?

Fucking brilliant! Now nobody can ask probing questions because they must be asked “in a public forum” … which can’t happen because it would prejudice upcoming trials … which haven’t happened because nobody bothered their holes collecting evidence … which didn’t happen because nobody asked any probing questions.