The Bondholders....

Who the fuck are they?

We want names and addresses…

**YEAH! :imp: **

Too right.

And another thing, make the shareholders register as at the time of the guarantee for all banks public. I want to know whose share price I goosed. Oh yeah, and you can make the one at the time of nationalisation public too. I want to know who sold out on the bounce…

Bondholders of where exactly?

As a “Bondholder”, I’m unwilling to give my name and address.

All you’ll get is a list of addresses of solicitors, who act as mailboxes for limited companies, who act as fronts for people who three years ago sat inside the tent in Ballybrit.

Yeah but senior bondholders don’t matter a damn ( apart from our pension funds ). I reckon that is who they are protecting, BIAM etc who bought Bonds in the mother ship.

Were the regulator to identify the beneficial bondholders in our banks that would be a great help right now.

Can I ask what this would achieve?

I would like to know who it is that my government are helping with an income levy that I am paying at the moment and for the forseeable future.

I want to know who is so important that they have to be saved, against all sensible advice, to keep property at an artificially high level.

Knowing the answer to this might explain a lot, and the fact that it is proving so difficult to discover makes suspicious, even more when you think about the characters involved and their track record.

Someone called “laughingbear” on this page is trying to get bondholder info via FOI act - his other posts are worth a read. McWilliams is getting a lot of traffic from the general public now - it does take some people a while to catch on in Ireland it seems.

davidmcwilliams.ie/2010/04/07/government-has-sold-us-out-to-neo-gombeen-man/comment-page-2#comments

Lenihan already said that 50% of the bondholders are irish, and if Anglo defaulted on them, “it would be defaulting on ourselves”

independent.ie/business/irish/ireland-must-not-welch-on-its-debts-but-can-bear-the-heavy-cost-lenihan-2120460.html

So does that mean if I default on my debts as a result of say losing my job that the state will step in and pay off my creditors 50% of what they are owed? Does it fuck, find out who the bondholders are and default, if they didnt protect their investment or manage the risk then they shouldnt be in this business. :unamused:

Sorry mate it would be defaulting on 50% external debt and on top of that we would be defaulting on the richer half of his fianna fail buddies.

Sorry Leni but we’re not seeing enough of the bad guys begging on o’connell street yet

These guys need removing from power and some changes to the laws governing this 3rd world backwater.

If a bond holder list for Anglo is produced and analysed and we default on all Anglo debt, is that likely to be a clean outcome?

Subordinated debt holders total around €2.5-3bn (from a rough look at Bloomberg) with €719m junior subordinated debt. This debt contains equity like characteristics so could and probably should (IMHO) be treated in line with equity holders.

Senior debt holders total around €24bn and that’s currently government guaranteed, but if we can produce a bond holder list, we can get rid of the government guarantee and default on that.

However, investors in senior bank paper are probably less likely to be speculative traders and more likely to be pension funds, money managers etc given that prices on bank senior debt tend to be relatively close to par or at least not far enough away that you’ll make a huge killing. For example, a $ senior paper issue priced at a low of around 93 just before the government guarantee announcement.

So of €27bn in debt, around 2.5% is at a level the investor should take a loss, around 8.5% at a level where they could / should take a loss. The remaining 89% or so is at a level where if you default on them then you’re ignoring that they may have bought or held debt on the basis of the sovereign guarantee, which if we think is something that can be treated lightly at that level of debt, is not a positive market indicator for the price of our future funding needs.

“The Bondholders” is not a generic label.

It would seem to me from Lenihans interview that the ECB is also a bondholder.

independent.ie/business/irish/ireland-must-not-welch-on-its-debts-but-can-bear-the-heavy-cost-lenihan-2120460.html

Whats the name of that Jim Diamond song again oh yeah

And I should have known better to lie with one as beautiful as you.
Yeah, I should have known better to take a chance on ever losing you.
But I thought you’d understand, can you forgive me?
I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I
should have known better,
I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I
should have known better.

:angry:

There’s a better chance of jedward and Marilyn Manson doing a gig together than there is of this information being made available under an FOI request.

Can’t recall exactly but I seem to remember that there was a specific exemption in the legislation to forestall FOI requests when this stinking pile of dung was finally nationalised– ostensibly to protect account holders privacy yada yada yada.

What does interest me here is the possibility of a follow on campaign from the inevitable refusal of the FOI request. Rather than seeing that as a dead end, is there a possibility to leverage that refusal to cause some political discomfort for our esteemed ruling class.

While I’ve generally applauded the various grassroots efforts (marches protests, facebook groups etc.) to protest the Government’s betrayal of the country, my expectations that they would effect any meaningful change were pretty low.

Not that I expect that failing to disclose who the identity of the Anglo bondholders will cause any significant change but I like the notion that it is a simple enough concept to be generally easily understood and therefore has the distinct chance of functioning as a lightning rod for the pent up rage extant in the country. Anything that causes discomfort among those seeking to insulate themselves at our expense seems like a good idea to me.

I don’t know the breakdown of Anglo’s liabilities but presumably the bond holders % comprises the lion’s share of Anglo’s debt compared with depositors. That being so, distilling slogans and sound bites (the engines of any modern media campaign) around disclosing who we’re writing the cheques to shouldn’t be too hard…

Opinions?

Or wikileaks.org They guarantee to protect the identity of whistleblowers.

Anyone who works in an irish brokerage and has access to this information, now is your time to do the right thing. Your country needs you.

Any chance the bank bondholders are the other Irish banks so defaulting would have a domino effect :open_mouth:

Yes, there is that chance.

The other banks have already failed so an Anglo default wouldnt make things any worse.

Its more likely that theyre protecting private pension funds. All irish pension funds would own Anglo bonds.