The Celtic Tiger generation - where now?

I was at the Munster v Wasps game yesterday, and was struck by the number of young 'uns at the game (20 - 30). Bright, articulate, and a good lot of fun I have to say.

However, what is their future? This is the generation that has never experienced unemployment, has massive debts, yet seem oblivious to any impending problems.

Being of the generation (30 - 40) that spanned the two great divides in Ireland, I am aware of the folly of both sets of arguments - overt pessimism and the rapid change to over optimism.

OH no! I am in that generation 20-30 :open_mouth: What can I dooo!!! :blush:

Establish on online forum dedicated to providing warts and all commentary on the current reality, with the housing/construction bubble as its anchor. Or has that already been done? :wink:

Well, I was hosting a crowd of 8 20-something Dubs in Galway last night. All of them with degrees, decent jobs, and debts. All of them - every single one - intending to emigrate within 18 months. There was an extended lively debate on the relative merits of each potential destination country.

Germany and Oz were the clear favourites btw. The general consensus was that Ireland sucked, way too expensive, the cute-hoor on-the-cheap rip-off mentality of Irish Management (in every industry, it seems), the lack of any progress in the last decade in reforming the obviously broken systems, the mumbling muppet politicians…

Sounds to me like you hosted a crowd of 8 whingers. Why dont they do something about their complaints instead of running away, looking to sponge off some other countrys success.

They should stick around and try to make a difference. A few people can have a big impact. Look at the impact the founders of the Property Pin have had. Well done to them. They are patriots!

I do wonder if that is a major problem with Ireland. A huge amount of the people who want things to change end up leaving the country. Then when you leave the country you start to realise that in many ways it is actually worse than you thought it was. So you either never come back or you only come back when you are in a position to live your life in a way that the worst aspects of the country don’t touch you.

8 intelligent, educated professionals with ambition and a love of life. Hardly “whingers”.

They are going because they just don’t see any possibility of positive change! Our system is so broken and the people in charge everywhere so soul-destroyingly stupid, mediocre, incompetent and greedy that they can’t see any route towards making a change.

That’s why everyone leaves Ireland - you “can’t be rocking the boat”. Anybody who stands up and says “this isn’t working, why don’t we do it this way instead” just gets savaged by the herd for daring to step out of line. You get a reputation as being “difficult”, “uncooperative”, “not a team player” if you try to suggest minor improvements to the way things are done. It grinds you down over time. The tyranny of the herd is rampant in Ireland.

Simply put: why bother? If you can have a great quality of life, better services, a rewarding career somewhere else and enjoy your life why bloody bother putting up with the endless struggle to get anything done properly in a country relentlessly run by total morons? A life of endless frustration and anger at the naff crapness of it all; or a life on the beach earning good money for a job done well.

I know which I’d choose if I was 25 again.

Half empty or Half Full? :smiley:

My response is, it is a glass of precious water. How did it get there? How can we protect it as a source of life, so all can enjoy it.

To be honest I concur completely with Sidewinders analysis.

There is one solution to solve the problem, to encourage a world that encourages problem solvers as life enhancers and not nesscarily for profit always, … rogramming

Map that to the populaiton and see what the computer spits out!

Why would they want to go? I’m a 20-something year old, have a degree and a good job. Things are still good here, unless, you fell in with the sheeple and bought a house with a 35 year, 100% mortgage also having his/her’s car loans. No point in jumping the gun and high-tailing it to Australia or Germany. These places aren’t the land of milk and honey as everyone is led to believe.

When was it ever otherwise?

As I said in response to your comments in a similar vein on another thread:-

I got the shits with Ireland and emigrated about 6 years ago. Let’s just say it’s not all roses in the garden. Sucky and all as Ireland is, it is home and it’s hard to turn your back on it. I’ve been living in Oz, have a good well paying job, nice apartment, good quality of life etc, but I’m considering moving back home.

Unless you have a nice lump sum with you, getting onto the property ladder in Australia is not easy. Average wages are about $50k and average house prices are around $350k (Brisbane), $400k (Melbourne) $450k (Perth) and $520k (Sydney).

Renting in Australia is reasonably good value and much cheaper than owning. Unlike most countries - Australian landlords are allowed to offset losses on residential property against their other income, reducing the overall amount of tax payable (called negative gearing). Effectively the government subsidises landlords’ losses making rent artificially cheap.

Mortgage interest rates are substantially higher in Australia, so even though prices are lower, monthly repayments are much higher due to the interest rate. THE RBA just raised the base rate from 6.50% to 6.75% and most people’s mortgage rate is around 8.00%. Further interest rises are forecast.

Prices in Oz are lower compared to Ireland, but average wages are also lower, and interest rates are much higher, so it all kind of evens out. That being said - you get much more bang for your buck in Australia and houses/apartments will generally be bigger and of higher quality than what is typically churned out in Ireland.

No particular point here, just providing some perspective.

Agreed. Australia is deep down quite a racist country. Some of the views of European descended Australians with regard to the Aborigines are bordering on white supremacist. It’s a country that kept re-electing Bush-loving neo-con Howard (and might even do so again). It’s a great country for those that are into sport and the outdoor life, but personally I’m not that interested in those things.

Germany for me would appeal to some extent, but unfortunately I do not have sufficiently good German. Also the unemployment rate is still horrendous.

Since I joined this forum, Sidewinder has been talking about leaving Ireland and if he is the same Sidewinder that used to post on, he was also talking about it there. We will wait and see what he actually does.

That is a ludicrious generalisation spoken from no basis of fact or experience.

No it is not.

It is, in fact, an impression based on meeting Australians, visiting Australia, and I have had it confirmed through discussions with others.

Nice sweeping generalisation. :unamused:

I disagree completely. Australia is the most racially integrated society I have come across. Most urban Australian suburbs feature a wide diversity of ethnic backgrounds.

We all have our dreams and we all think out loud. This forum is not for holding others accountable for such expressions or such general statements about what can be emotive & personally difficult issues and especially this kind which is possibly more an expression of frustration than anything, without knowing complete story. So perhaps we can leave it at the door.

I’d hate to think posters would start nit picking each others aspirations, checking to see if we’ve fulfilled, in a vein effort to somehow insinuate they might be the lesser for perhaps not achieving expressed ideals.

We’d have to mod a little bit heavier if that where to happen. People express a degree of personal info here and it’s for them to decide what but we are not here to analysis it to the detriment of the users experience or sense of self.

Might as well shut up and shop and just agree with everyone, in that case.

OK, let’s all chorus together:

(1) Ireland is the shittiest country on Earth
(2) Property is 98% overvalued
(3) Anyone who bought property is an idiot

(Hope that fits the bill for ya, Open Window)

Superb, “talked to a few people and visited”

What a citizen of the world you are :unamused:

I moved to England six weeks ago and I have to say, it’s a breath of fresh air. To think of how much time I pissed away working for Ericsson in Clonskeagh, when I should have been here! Salaries are way higher and people are motivated by actually achieving things (instead of trying to skive off all the time).

I see your point Sidewinder. But I think there are good reasons to stick around in Ireland on the horizon. Some of the things in Ireland that really bug me are about to be put right. Eg. the roads infrastructure. The nationwide motorway network is going to improve life for a lot of us, like me.

And for young people who havent bought a property yet, all of us here know that, prices are going to be falling steadily for the next couple of years. And probably rents too. If the rate of immigration to Ireland slows or reverses, as is predicted, rents could get very very cheap indeed.

As far as the herd mentality problem you highlight, yeah it bugs all of us free thinking individuals. But its not really a reason to emigrate. If other people bug you in Ireland, chances are theyll bug you in Australia/Germany as well. The key is associate yourself with like-minded people, and ignore the turkeys.

If someone has survived the bubble, they might as well hang on here, rents will be cheaper and traffic congestion will be lighter when the economy cools off.