The David McWilliams thread


yeah, I thought this was common knowledge - is McWilliams the only one who doesn’t know?


Swedish MPs from outside Stockholm are put up in something like a bit like student lodgings. It’s presumably because it is so difficult for them to enter the local rental market.


The rent certainty debate seems to be dominated by extreme positions.

Rent controls are fine if they just buffer the increases for a while. Something like max 10% increase per year, plus removal of all loopholes to kick out tenants (family use, selling property, unnecessary refurb, change of use), ought to be fine.


Very good Barney.

What about the “Danish Pastry” - whatever they decide they’ll make a meal of it. :-GC


Yes but don’t forget, the proposals so far have centred on a subsidy for landlords if they “agree” to rent control. This is another wealth transfer from the taxpayer to landlords, including of course… NAMA!


I’m an unintentional landlord.

What subsidy am I being offered?
And what has nama done for me?


NAMA has done everything it can to keep rents and prices as high as possible

Thats its whole raison d’être, same with the banks, the government, rent allowance ect

High rents good, low rent bad


:laughing: jesus!
They even invented a term to try to justify their intervention: Long Term Economic Value; which is equal parts hilarious and ironic when used by “free market” advocates…


A tax break, apparently.

As a landlord? Kept rents high by hoarding properties longer than necessary and warehousing loans.

As a taxpayer?


What tax break? If anything taxes have increased in the last 5 years.

Is there anything to back up the “nama hoarding EMPTY properties” argument? It seems to be another “the dogs in the street” type argument - lots of air time but little substance.

How does warehousing loans impact market rents?


The ones that have been proposed in return for rent controls :slight_smile:

No idea. It’s not the argument I made.

Actually that’s a good point, can’t say for sure if it impacts on rents. It’s a fucking horrible thing from the taxpayers’ perspective, but it may impact sale prices more than rents.


I thought you were making the “hoarding” arguememt?

Yeah, the slow/fast disposal of loans/assets only changes the “owners” - doesn’t impact supply which is the main problem as I see it.

Sure there’s no developers left to develop land now anyways and the only buyers of nama’s irish assets have been PE/Hedge funds who are not in the business of building.


All the articles I can see (quick Google there) on tax breaks relate to “taking people off the social housing list”.

No details provided.
Why would it take someone off the social housing list?
Why wouldn’t it apply for regular private sector tenents too?



I always wonder what we should do as a forum when we have threads that are read by those named in title.

Right now I want to remind people the net is a very open place and from time to time all kinds of people dip in and out of here.

So with that in mind and referencing back to a view expressed very early on with regards to this matter that those on other sites and stuff etc. etc. should be, as a rule of thumb, be treated as if they are users here. To extend the courtesy and such to all.



what do you mean there are no developers left? even if that was true, and all earlier developers had been put in a sack and thrown in the river, then what exactly would be the barrier to entry into the property development game stopping new guys/gals from getting in on the act?

Not at all sure that PE/Hedge funds are not in the business of building. If they buy the land they’ll either try to hold it to sell for a speculative gain, or perhaps develop it for a mix of speculative and development gain. Certainly some of these fund-bodies would be prepared to develop assets.

Nama on the other hand has not been in the business of developing property… for specific reasons


McWilliams on Claire Byrne now. Cue laboured metaphors and statements of the bleeding obvious.


It was hyperbole - (Can I say I was being “hyperbolic” - answers on my C3 leaving cert english paper :blush: )

Most of the big developers went bankrupt, many others were (still are) stuck in nama, while others saw most of their equity wiped out. What developers are building now? The Comer Group, Flynn following his exit from NAMA?

Cerberus, Pepper & lone star aren’t going to build anything - they’re in the loan business. Kennedy Wilson are building though - down in the Docks & up in Sandyford I think.

“what exactly would be the barrier to entry into the property development game stopping new guys/gals from getting in on the act?” That’s the question though isn’t it? If you accept the hysterics, this is the biggest housing & homelessness crisis in Irish history yet there’s feck all new units being built - very few new entrants.


is he still suffering from Stockholm syndrome?


Nama will have concluded its work in a couple of years, so assorted whingers will have to find something else to blame for the country’s woes. In most media coverage, Nama is lambasted for having sold assets too soon; here, though, it is the opposite criticism: Nama should have sold everything in a giant firesale in 2010, at rock bottom prices. Good news for those who were in a position to buy then (probably vulture funds for lots of the stuff), but very bad news for the Irish taxpayer, which would have got a miserable return.

Given the horrendous mess they inherited, and the need to recoup the 30 billion they had nominally spent acquiring the loans, Nama has done a reasonable job. (That’s not to say there weren’t bad individual deals done along the way, or that transparency was lacking. And it has only belatedly woken up to the need to develop a programme of social housing.)


Hyperbolic? i thought that was on the maths paper,
like just because you’re parabolic doesn’t mean everyone isn’t out to reflect onto your focus (get you), and then where that goes to hyperbolic paraboloid, I really don’t know… :smiley: :smiley:

You see, I’d say that property development is a pretty straight-forward business. There’s stuff that takes time and effort and skill, but it’s the kind of game that people can get into small and move up as they learn, at least if the market isn’t saturated. Our market is blocked, and I don’t think that’s entirely accidental.