The Economic Impact of Covid 19


#26

Michael Taft has a solution - just pay everybody more, then the taxes will raise themselves.


#27

It’s so simple isn’t, whouda thunk it.

The brass arrogance is breathtaking.


#28

I’m starting to think the ‘brass arrogance’ is less ‘thick skinned bullshit’ than ‘genuine, unadulterated, pure ignorance’.
And this is where it gets scary. Properly scary.
The maxim that you ‘shouldn’t attribute malicious intent where stupidity will suffice’ is worryingly apt here.

As for myself (as many will atest) I prefer to believe that we’re being led by cynical, amoral, sociopaths who are pressing a nefarious agenda, than believe we are being led by complete, total and utter fucking cretins.


#29

Wow. Beautifully put “I prefer to believe that we’re being led by cynical, amoral, sociopaths who are pressing a nefarious agenda, than believe we are being led by complete, total and utter fucking cretins.” This is truly the dilemma I face every election.

Frankly I’m glad I’m not a leader having to make decisions on how to handle the plague at the moment. I’m not enough of a cynic or idiot to be attracted to putting myself in that position. That’s the fundamental problem with democracy it tends to attract these 2 types as candidates. The choice on election day 90% of the time is between being led by cynical, amoral, sociopaths who are pressing a nefarious agenda, or complete, total and utter fucking cretins.

One particular way the idiots promises tend to fall down come election time is money i.e. where will you get the money.
There seems to be 3 plans:-
1 Borrow it.
If the plan is announced as “We will spend money like there’s no tomorrow”. Who with money is going it to loan us when they know we will never be able to pay our creditors back?
2 Make companies pay more tax
Who with money is going to set up here if we are going to tax them high?
3 Issue our own money rather than borrow it.
I could see our elected representatives embracing this option and hyper inflation setting in.

At the moment we have the cynics borrowing like idiots.
We are borrowing like there’s no next year and will never be able to pay back our creditors unless the plan is bankruptcy, much higher rates of inflation (thereby making debt easier to manage) or taxing companies and individuals higher.

How I see it playing out. Main street will see austerity but this time it may come to pass that the era of multinationals paying little or no taxes will become unacceptable, if that’s a worldwide thing we can put their taxes up somewhat here without them leaving. Inflation may kick in to wipe out the real value of debt. As for the rest my guess is some of the debt will never be paid back or money will just be issued (think magicked into existence not borrowed) as a once off to pay it back.


#30

Could can sometimes be a combination of both qualities.

@MurphyWasAnOptimist

3 Issue our own money rather than borrow it.
I could see our elected representatives embracing this option and hyper inflation setting in.

This sounds like your conclusion, later in your post.
Afaik, one way or another a country’s debt is always paid.


#31

Debt-free money is where we should be looking, why did we end up in a situation where the banks call the shots when it comes to financial management of the economy, that is where the elected representatives in government should be in control.

As for the “hyper inflation” why is it assumed that only governments could cause it? Debt free money is essentially inflation proof as there is no need to enforce growth to repay the debt in borrowing money that we now must endure.


#32

3 posts were split to a new topic: Split #000002 - de-slide


#35

I like the idea of limited debt free money and it could work in an ideal world. I am convinced once governments start issuing it they’ll find it hard to limit its use. If we had governments we could trust to be responsible this would not be a problem. Reliably electing responsible governments won’t happen (the choice is cynical amoral sociopaths, idiots, or both). Buying elections is what leads to hyper inflation.
I wouldn’t trust any Irish government I can remember to be responsible enough not to do this (I remember as far back as Jack Lynch). Debt free money would lead to peoples hard earned savings after a life time of responsibility being wiped out.


#36

The damage is done before the hyper-inflation kicks in. It’s the painful return to where things should actually be.


#37

Debt free money was how it used to be before the banks gained sufficient control of the monitory system to stop governments issuing debt free money and make themselves the only source of money.

No sane government would throw money into the system as to cause hyper inflation, even an insane government would think twice about doing this.

As for inflation eroding your savings, the current banking system is hard coded to do exactly that, except at the moment it is broken with near zero inflation hurting the banks profits.

With debt free money, you spend it in at the bottom or as UBI and tax it out at the top to recirculate back to the bottom, so you don’t actually need to “print” money (outside of matching population increases) the same money just circulates.

It would put an upper limit on just how wealthy some individuals can become, but that can’t be a bad thing.


#38

Come on in, sure the water is fine…………………

Bill Gates steams in to buy Irish bonds in bet on recovery

January 11 2014 01:02 PM

THE world’s richest man, Microsoft billionaire Bill Gates, has steamed in to buy Irish bonds as the threat of default was extinguished.

The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation has made a fortune on his bond holdings, which have rocketed in value as Ireland exits the bailout.

Last week, Gates regained his crown as the world’s richest man, according to the Bloomberg Billionaires index, which pegged his wealth at $78.5bn (€57.4bn), up $15.8bn in the last year.

The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation owns nearly $20m worth of Irish bonds.

At the end of December 2012, it held close to $7.8m worth of Irish 5.4 government bonds with a maturity of 2025, $6.03m worth of Irish 5 government bonds with a maturity of 2020, and $4.14m worth of Irish 4.5 bonds with a maturity of 2020.

Those bonds have been a spectacular investment, returning close to 10 per cent over the last year.
https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/bill-gates-steams-in-to-buy-irish-bonds-in-bet-on-recovery-29907734.html

Gates was a €27m bank bondholder
MICROSOFT founder Bill Gates held nearly $35m (€26.8m) of bonds in Irish banks prior to the economic bust in 2008, according to filings for his charity.

Details of assets held by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation show that at the end of 2007, the charity held Irish bank bonds worth more than $20m.

That included nearly $3.8m worth of bonds in Bank of Ireland (UK). The foundation also had about $8m worth of bonds related to Anglo Irish. And there was $3.6m worth of bonds held in Irish Life & Permanent and about $2.7m in bonds in Irish Nationwide. Mr Gates – the world’s second richest person with a $67bn fortune – visited Taoiseach Enda Kenny in January. Microsoft is a significant employer here.

https://www.independent.ie/business/world/gates-was-a-27m-bank-bondholder-29227824.html


#39

At least 10% of emergency COVID-19 welfare payment are ‘bogus’, says whistleblower

At least 10% of claims for the emergency Covid welfare payment are bogus or fraudulent, a Social Protection Department whistleblower has told the Irish Mail on Sunday.

The insider says millions of euro are being paid out wrongly every week because cross-checks with information held by the Revenue Commissioners are not being done prior to payments being issued.

Social Welfare staff were instructed to approve most of the claims and check their full validity later. It has emerged that hundreds of applicants for the €350 weekly payment have tried to leave the country while still claiming it.
The department has confirmed that it has already stopped 32,000 people getting­ the­ Pandemic­ Unemployment­ Payment ­in ­last ­Monday’s ­pay­ run,­ because ­they ­were not ­entitled­ to ­it.­ An­ analysis ­of ­a ­limited ­set ­of­ figures­ provided­ by­ the ­department­ suggests­ that­ at­ least­ €60,000­ of­ the­ total ­claims­ so far ­are ­bogus.

This­ includes­ €2.7m­ sought­ by­ claimants­ caught­ by­ officials­ leaving ­the ­country.
They­ were­ identified­ as­ having­ no­ payslips­ in­ 2020,­ or­ in­ the­ case­ of ­the ­self-employed­ applicants,­ no­ Class­ S ­contributions­ in­ the ­relevant­ year.­ As ­of ­April ­30, ­the ­department­ ­acknowledged­ that­ up­ to­ €2.7m­ worth­ of­ the­ payments­ were­ saved­ by­ its­ officials­ intercepting­ claimants­ trying ­to ­leave­ the ­country.

The­ whistleblower ­said ­that ­in ­one­ case 150 ­people ­bound­ for ­Romania­ were­ stopped­ at­ Dublin­ Airport­ ­before ­their ­flight. ­The ­insider ­said:­ ‘The­ department’s­ officers­ were­ tipped­ off­ and­ it­ was­ subsequently­ discovered­ that­ 100­ of­ them­ were­ receiving­ this ­emergency ­payment.­ But­ our­ fear­ is­ that­ many­ people­ have­ managed­ to­ return­ to­ their­ country­ and­ are ­continuing­ to­ claim­ PUP ­via­ their­ Irish­ bank­ account.’

On­ May­ 5,­ a­ department­ memo­ stated­ that­ 950­ of­ 1,300­ payments­ were­ stopped­ because­ their­ last­ employer­ was­ based­ outside­ Ireland.

There is some more


#40

#41

#42

It should be clear to many that we produce far more food than we actually need, because of the crisis and the lockdowns, instead of the food being wasted at restaurants & hotels, it is now being stuck at the suppliers & producers.

The waste that COVID has exposed in our modern way of living is frightening, the post crisis “new normal” really must be less wasteful!


#43

I’m a bit confused about an aspect of this, if anyone was willing to instruct me…

How is there loads of food going rotten because restaurants are closed; surely we are eating the same amount as before? Its just moved from food service to retail?

Even allowing for a lower calorific intake, variations in diet and production/delivery snafus, surely there cant be that much excess food?

Am I missing something obvious here?


#44

Most hotels cook far more food than they ever sell, just look at all the brown bins around the back. The lockdown is exposing this waste for all to see. The costs are simply passed to the customers.


#45

Afaik, market forces should dictate the price, so if there is over supply the price should drop.

That was 1 of the problems with the soviet system and their centrally planned economy. They couldn’t discover the correct price of anything.


#46

Market forces do set the demand from the food producers, the catering trade has set the requirements and the producers have obliged.
The issue is that caterers are expected to have the full menu available at all times, if the customer orders Dover sole ten minutes before closing time the restaurant needs to have one available for him. So they always prepare more than what is needed.
It’s not like they expect 100 customers and they cook a variety of meals sufficient for 100 and if you’re at the back of the queue, you get what’s left.
At the end of each sitting, there is a huge amount of unsold food that is simply thrown away, some places let the staff graze it first.

With the lockdown, that overproduction cannot be absorbed by households as people in general will never cook for six when they’re a family of four.


#47

Have you not heard of the Covid Stone? Or the Covid Stone and a Half around some-parts.