The Emigration Thread.


#861

:smiley:

Well done sidewinder anyway.


#862

I’ll try to muster some of the old Sidewinder TM contempt and fury on some other thread so, just for old times sake :laughing:

Cheers folks, if any of ye are thinking of emigrating I love Wellington, it’s a great wee city. Auckland is a big sprawling mess and the rural farming towns are extremely dull though. Still, spectacular scenery and loads of outdoor activities everywhere in NZ.


#863

Really? I find the Irish have a pretty bad name in Perth.

Unfortunately.


#864

You know yer starting to become a bit Kiwi when you celebrate by organising a weekend tube-rafting down whitewater rapids…

Mad fun, but still covered in bruises :laughing:


#865

Did you ever come across a band in Welly called “Filthy Reel” or “Filthy Two” now? Last time I was in NZ it was for one of their mates wedding. I still haven’t made it to the North Island but I will one of these days, glad its working out for you.


#866

“Research contradicts brain drain narrative of emigration”

irishtimes.com/news/ireland/ … -1.1631163


#867

Jobseekers snap up 4,000 Canadian visas in 10 minutes

irishexaminer.com/breakingne … 25080.html

Nuts!


#868

Youth unemployment falling significantly - Burton

rte.ie/news/2014/0416/609242-unemployment/

So it’s not emmigration then? Oh right Joan

And also, how if you are in a training programme run by Solas (FÁS) are you not ‘unemployed’

You still do not havea job. You still are paid a state welfare payment.


#869

Canadians will be given priority over foreigners under changes to the temporary foreign workers program (TFWP) announced Friday. The changes follow months of criticism after some employers were caught hiring cheap foreign help over Canadian applicants, investigations that suggested widespread fraud, and accusations of little oversight and that it was driving down wages. torontosun.com/2014/06/20/ma … rker-rules


#870

thejournal.ie/work-permits-i … ?r_dir_d=1

Basically Employers shun local labour market to hire in cheaper staff from abroad.

WIPRO and TCS are just transporting over workers from India to Ireland; that provides practically no benefit to Irish society. The workers compete for local resources, pay little tax, their employing companies pay little tax and young Irish professionals stay on the dole queues or emigrate.

There is no question that the majority of those vacancies couldn’t be filled by applicants from the internal E.U. workforce. Of course they could.
… and the article mentions that Government is making it even easier to hire cheap labour from outside the E.U.

We’ve see that many of these multi-nationals pay shockingly low levels of corporation tax in comparisson to the level of turnover that goes through Ireland.

At some stage someone in Government is going to have to ask is it worthwhile facilitating these companies with Visas when Ireland as a country derives so little benefit from it.

There has to be a happier medium than the one we have at the moment. I don’t want the pendulum to swing completely in the other direction but Ireland at the moment has a surplus of willing young workers on the dole who would love the opportunity to build a career for themselves. It isn’t like the peak of the bubble years when mostly only the unemployable were left on the dole.

As I said I don’t want the pendulum to swing in completely the other direction. My language teacher was telling us this week that she got a job offer in California to teach a number of European Languages to College Students for a couple of months but couldn’t avail of it as the US Authorities wanted her to prove she had 25,000 euro in savings before they’d issue a work visa to her(details may be slightly muddled as she was speaking in German and my German isn’t great). She didn’t have the cash so that plan went out the window.


#871

The likes of Wipro and Tata regularly send people from India to Ireland on “business” for three months during which time they are basically working as standard employees and being paid Indian wage rates. Their food and accommodation are provided to them by the company. They will then go home for a few months and after that come back again on “business” to do the same again.

They are basically circumventing Irish labour law and are being facilitated by the Irish State in doing so. What benefit Ireland gains from this escapes me.

In the case of Google etc they are actually bringing over proper, highly qualified young Indians and paying them proper wages in Ireland…which would suggest that they simply cant get people of sufficient calibre in Ireland or the EU. Nontheless, beyond these employees spending some of their wages in Ireland, again, on the face of it, there doesn’t seem to be huge benefit to Ireland or Irish society generally from all this.

Surely focussing more on local initiatives or would be more beneficial??


#872

I strongly disagree. Foreign talent both forces and enables locals to up their game. This is my experience from working in software teams in London and Dublin over many years.

Part of the problem is the patchy/shoddy level of third level computer science and software engineering education in Dublin institutions, part of it is the relatively poor wages (compared to other local professions and relative to cost of living) which pushes talent into other more lucrative careers locally and other tech hubs globally.


#873

Businesses that invest into foreign countries regularly transfer staff from the home country or head office to their overseas locations. This allows for two way skills transfer but also for the transplantation of the company culture into the remote offices. The majority of FDI into Ireland is from the US, so the staff coming here temporally within American corporations are on salary levels not too different to their Irish counterparts. For an Indian business it’s no surprise that the salary levels are noticeably lower than those here and not surprising that staff from the organisations country of origin are regularly seconded to the Irish or other overseas locations.

Irish businesses working abroad engage in the similar practices.

Blue Horseshoe


#874

Wipro and TCS aren’t employing Europeans. Ireland is their foothold in the European market. They also aren’t developing primarily, they are offering consultancy. Ireland will never establish its own indigenous companies in those industries when being undercut by the likes of them.
Also the Brazilian Butchers who get Visas can’t be claimed to possess some unique skillset.


#875

could also feel like having dodged a bullet.
Could argue on having “missed da boat” regarding property purchase, but if someone was going to move back to Ireland and rent then they’ll be exposed to the increases (no way to lock in a 40 year lease!). Tax-increases, cost-of-living-increases, and salary-flattening are also all things that you’re exposed to equally whether you move back today or moved back 3 years ago and stayed until today.

Ireland: Not a very good country to live in all told, I would say.


#876

I was talking to my boss about a possible assignment in Dublin a while ago. Based on a back of the envelope calculation and discussion with a colleague who came back to France after 2 years in Dublin, I’d need an extra 500 or 600 per month to maintain my current ‘standard’ of living. This would be mostly rental payments (versus mortgage here), but also health insurance for the family plus some additional tax. It’s worrying for the Dublin economy if I’m more expensive to employ there than I am in the Paris region.

I suppose one disadvantage in Dublin is the coast cuts off a large swathe of potential city-proximate housing, but my goodness you folk are paying a lot for accommodation, much of it not very appealing.


#877

Yes but there is a “recovery” you see. A price must be paid for the “recovery”. Don’t ask me who sets that price.


#878

In final year in college the only thing I could think about was planning emigation. The plan involved something like writing novels while living in southern Spain. That was about a decade ago. Now I own a house in Dublin and sit in front of a spreadsheet.

Students are poor forecasters of their own futures.


#879

Flew out of Kerry Airport yesterday and a young woman was crying while she talked to a young man in the queue to go though the security checks. Couldn’t work out the relationship between them; I think they were sister and brother as they were there with kids and older adults too.
They delayed as long as possible before he eventually went through to the security check while all others in the queue tried to give them some privacy in a public place.
Michael Noonan would have you believe that emigration is great.
independent.ie/irish-news/fa … 13027.html


#880

The stats for under 25s in Ireland are still very poor. Emigration will continue for another few years to come

Per CSO’s QNHS statbank, whith figures from Q1 2000 to Q1 2014
cso.ie/px/pxeirestat/Statire … Language=0

15-19 years:
Highest unemployment rate: 48.3% in Q2 2012
Lowest unemployment rate: 8.2% in Q2 2001
Current unemployment rate: 30.8% in Q1 2014

Rate has been over 30% each quarter since Q2 2009

20-24 years:
Highest unemployment rate: 29.0% in Q3 2012
Lowest unemployment rate: 4.6% in Q4 2000
Current unemployment rate: 23.9% in Q1 2014

Rate has been over 20% each quarter since Q2 2009