The Emigration Thread.


#901

irishtimes.com/news/social-a … 554?page=2

Fintan O’Toole article on Emigration in the Irish Times. Not the worst opinion piece commited to paper.


#902

Well a lot of the decrease in that cohort of the population would have happened regardless of the crash. It was simple demographics with there being fewer births in the late 80s than the late 70s.


#903

Genuine question: can someone explain to me what the loss in human wealth is if a substitute doctor is imported after another is exported? The net result is the same - one doctor in Ireland - isn’t it?


#904

Have you seen the movie Doc Hollywood or TV series Northern Exposure.
Nothing wrong with importing skilled staff except for the tens if not hundreds of thousands invested in to the education of a newly qualified Irish doctor by Irish society.
I was out and about with a Serbian Eye Specialist Doctor at the weekend. Serbia’s loss is Heidelberg’s gain.


#905

Isn’t Fintan O’Toole a cheerleader for the kind of mass immigration we have seen over the last decade and a half - and the kind who would shout down anyone who expresses concerns about same?


#906

I get that, but the Irish-educated doctor would’ve been paid a salary anyway, so I honestly don’t understand where the “vast loss” is. The net result is one doctor in Ireland. S/he will pay taxes and purchase goods and services in the same way as the Irish doctor would have.


#907

The unspoken sentiment is that a farrin doctor is not worth as much as an Irish one.


#908

This serbian doctor was telling me that her father missed her and had even found positions for her locally. Society has a duty to it’s members and Parents don’t really want to loose their children and when the local economy can’t offer best opportunities to offspring then society is loosing.
Immigrants aren’t as committed to the society as locals and will take the skills they acquire with them when they move elsewhere and probably will squirrel money away and out of the economy when they leave too.


#909

Actually, it’s the countries from which Ireland imports its doctors that suffer the net loss, assuming that they don’t import replacements from somewhere even cheaper.

like the locals that hoofed it after qualifying? :wink:


#910

Let’s not forget that there is also an element of foreign doctors doing the jobs that Irish doctors don’t want. A well-qualified Irish doc may decide to go abroad for a while. No Irish junior doctor wants to work in a rural hospital given the choice (well of course there are occasional exceptions, but by and large…) whereas some foreign-trained docs are happy to get the money.

Same thing happens with low-income jobs, this is just the same thing with an extra 0 at the end.

Let’s also not forget the bizarre Irish tradition that you cannot be appointed a consultant without first emigrating.


#911

I love it here and I appreciate what I’ve got here and get very annoyed if I saw someone abusing the locals or the environment but I’m not as commited as the locals; My mindset is that I won’t be here forever. The Serbian Doctor I was with at the weekend didn’t see herself here in 20 years time either.
There is a cost involved in having to replacing us more transitory types which wouldn’t have to be paid for locals who build their lives here and have ties to the country.


#912

The Irish people who are thinking of emigrating are equally not committed to Ireland. They’ve probably been planning the move for a couple of years, during which time they presumably care less and less about local issues.


#913

I never had a thought of emigrating until a couple of shitty things came on top of one another from general quality of life issues in Dublin to Lenny deciding that everyone other than those who were to blame for the banking collapse should pay for the banking collapse.


#914

FO’T

Of course, being a good socialist, Fintan would’nt mention high taxes as possible major contributor to driving a lot of these people out of their country


#915

Yes, that’s all I can conclude - FO’T says that Irish doctors constitute vastly greater human wealth than foreign doctors. :open_mouth:


#916

or perhaps that the cost of training doctors in ireland is higher than that of training their replacements


#917

Jeez, even Fintan ‘hates’ dem foreigners now, according to you boys :unamused: Of all the people on this island who would’nt mind if the place was overrun with immigrants in te morning, I’d say he’d be right up there.

Perhaps he’s alluding to the loss to a family, to friends, to neighbourhoods, sporting org etc of all these people who were born, bred and schooled here feeling they now have to leave to get on in life.
It’s not just a straight 1 for 1 swap.


#918

But the replacements are already trained, i.e. they’re doctors. Is he saying that their training is less valuable?

Maybe he’s imagining some your touchy-feely hippy granola free-range organic tree-hugging stuff, but what he actually wrote was “export of expensively-educated young people”, so very clearly focused on the person leaving and the cost of educating them.


#919

It’s a negative cost - you get them trained and past the health issues of youth. Use them in their prime when they’re cheap and then don’t have the burden costs of their old age.


#920

Or that our costs are too high?
:bulb: Perhaps we should just send the medical students abroad for training?