The Emigration Thread.


#921

Or simply send the sick people abroad for treatment?
I can think of some precedents…


#922

:bulb: In fact, if we shipped out the medical students, the sick people and the doctors, we could save ourselves the entire cost of a health service.

Sorted! 8DD


#923

I’m so far away from being ‘touchy feely’ etc as you say, that it’s quiet funny to read that. I’m just trying to interpret what Fintan was getting at, and stop the cries of ‘wacist’ from those who seek wrongs where none exists


#924

I think the most salient lesson to be learned from this thread is that, should you choose to emigrate, your weekends could be spent carousing the backstreets of medieval European cities with female Serbian eye specialists…hey baby let the freebirds fly… etc…


#925

Psych!

Sure, tell it to the rest of the vegans, Gandhi.


#926

Vino lunch in the brasserie aujourd hui? XD


#927

No, just checking your iwony detector. :laughing:


#928

The main points for me is that given our emigration levels

  1. Graduate taxes will only punish those who stay
  2. Graduate loans will be ignored totally by emigrants, or ignored outside EU totally

Accordingly should we be focusing on the cheapest most yellow pack possible 1 or 2 year max 3rd level education system and thereafter on the job training/part time university where your fees get paid by the employer while you work for them.


#929

It’s amazing that Fintan manages not to mention that Irish taxes for single people with good graduate jobs are very high. Inconvenient fact.


#930

for the most part irish employers will pay for nothing they don’t have to. jobbridge is exploited and visas are exploited. if visas are locked down then they’ll just employ more EU nationals who can already and will increasingly speak English as a lingua franca. A more holistic approach would be to make Ireland where people want to live and offers a better quality of life than elsewhere. They’ll say you can’t beat the crack back home but if that’s what you want you have to endure an awful lot in its pursuit.


#931

I agree with you and had sort of forgotten the kind of IBEC creeps you encounter in Ireland.
Both accounting and law firms do pay for people to do exams. The government could introduce it. How are apprenticeships paid for in the trades


#932

I don’t think that’s necessarily been the case in other countries. There will be a small number of people who choose to leave and never return, but that number will be small. Most people want to stay close-ish to their family, or at least come home occasionaly to visit.

After all, the same argument could be made for why credit cards would never work.


#933

I worked with a Dane who was avoiding his student loan.


#934

I know a few northerners who went to college down here but got loans from the UK system…20 years later, they still haven’t paid anything back and don’t intend to


#935

I never had a loan, but emigrated before I reached what would have been the repayment level.

As for staying close to family, I don’t know. Most people I know who went to university, chose somewhere a good hundred miles from their parents and almost none of them ever moved back very much closer. Occasional visiting would be the norm.
I’d say 50% of the PhDs I know from my university days now live in countries other than where they did their first degrees. The either emigrated to do the PhD and stayed, emigrated to to the PhD and then moved on or emigrated for a first postdoc or later job. To ensure people pay up, you’d need a watch list at airport security.

If your first full time occupation is in a place where 70-odd% of your peers are foreigners, emigration (even serial emigration) is the most natural thing in the world.


#936

In the US, student loan default rates are reported in minute detail, down to the university level. Default rates are high, over 15% in many cases. This is of course partly because of the size of the loans – graduating with $100,000 in loans is not unheard of.

In the UK the default rate seems to be much higher, around 45%. Not sure why this is. Anyone know?

A moderate default rate is something that can be modelled and factored into the programme I would have thought, the same way it is with credit cards, home loans, and mortgages. The fact that some people choose not to pay money that they owe does not mean that the programme cannot work. 45% seems unsustainable though.


#937

An impact of Emigration of young people can be seen in the latest Quartely National Household Survey Q2 2014

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=60641&start=30

Here we compared Q2 2011 to Q2 2014

Males
15-19, in Labour Force: fell from 23.1 Q2 2011 to 21.6 Q2 2014 (a fall of -1,500 or -6.5%. A Bad thing)
20-24, in Labour Force: fell from 101.4 Q2 2011 to 83.0 Q2 2014 (a fall of -18,400 or -18.1%. A Bad thing)
25-34, in Labour Force: fell from 329.3 Q2 2011 to 290.4 Q2 2014 (a fall of -38,900 or -11.8%. A Bad thing)

Total -58,800 Males aged 15-34 in the Labour Force in the past 3 years. Shocking!

Females
15-19, in Labour Force: fell from 21.9 Q2 2011 to 19.3 Q2 2014 (a fall of -2,600 or -11.9%. A Bad thing)
20-24, in Labour Force: fell from 96.9 Q2 2011 to 71.3 Q2 2014 (a fall of -25,600 or -26.4%. A Bad thing)
25-34, in Labour Force: fell from 301.3 Q2 2011 to 273.1 Q2 2014 (a fall of -28,200 or -9.4%. A Bad thing)

Total -56,400 Females aged 15-34 in the Labour Force in the past 3 years. Shocking!

Overall -115,200 Males and Females aged 15-34 in the Labour Force in the past 3 years. Brutal!


#938

A potential consequence of unilateral Obama action on immigration reform after the 2014 mid term elections.


#939

Per QNHS Q3 2014 vs Q2 2011 when Coalition came into power

Males, 15-19, Employed: a rise of +2,600
Females, 15-19, Employed: a rise of +2,700
Total, 15-19, Employed: a rise of +5,300

Males, 15-19, Unemployed: a fall of -2,800
Females, 15-19, Unemployed: a fall of -200
Total, 15-19, Unemployed: a fall of -3,000

Males, 15-19, in Labour Force: a fall of -200
Females, 15-19, in Labour Force: a rise of +2,500
Total, 15-19, in Labour Force: a rise of +2,300

Males, 20-24, Employed: a fall of -1,600
Females, 20-24, Employed: a fall of -13,900
Total, 20-24, Employed: a fall of -15,500

Males, 20-24, Unemployed: a fall of -13,200
Females, 20-24, Unemployed: a fall of –8,100
Total, 20-24, Unemployed: a fall of –21,300

Males, 20-24, in Labour Force: a fall of -14,700
Females, 20-24, in Labour Force: a fall of -22,000
Total, 20-24, in Labour Force: a fall of -36,700

Males, 25-34, Employed: a fall of -10,100
Females, 25-34, Employed: a fall of -28,200
Total, 25-34, Employed: a fall of -38,300

Males, 25-34, Unemployed: a fall of -30,300
Females, 25-34, Unemployed: a fall of –3,500
Total, 25-34, Unemployed: a fall of –33,800

Males, 25-34, in Labour Force: a fall of -40,400
Females, 25-34, in Labour Force: a fall of -31,800
Total, 25-34, in Labour Force: a fall of -72,200

**So
-10,200 15-24 year olds Employed
-24,300 15-24 year olds Unemployed
-34,400 15-24 year olds in Labour Force

Or
So
-48,500 15-34 year olds Employed
-58,100 15-34 year olds Unemployed
-106,600 15-34 year olds in Labour Force**


#940

25 - 34 is “young”? lol.

Though it’s not unusual to see men well into their 40s around Dublin city centre on a Saturday who dress like teenagers.