The Emigration Thread.


#1001

and maybe you were overlooking this statement. :wink:

Perhaps I should have clarified that I meant genuinely relevant (and to me interesting and fulfilling) jobs where I can use my knowledge and skills. Maybe I could work in finance in London, but then I could also work in fast food in Mullingar and probably find it equally worthwhile. Of course, the fact that I’d probably radiate that I was bored stiff in the interview might preclude me from ever getting that job at JP Morgan. :laughing:

Don’t worry, it was just a personal observation that for many people, the fashionable draw to all the so-called happening places just isn’t that relevant, because for them, there actually isn’t that much happening there. :smiley:
I (British) actually know relatively few people working in London, because the jobs for the people I know just aren’t there. I did work there for a while, but that was as a postdoc.

Incidentally, when interviewing others for jobs in industrial R&D, I’ve also had a high proportion of candidates from abroad (mostly EU, but also farther afield). Particularly when you’re looking for people with a PhD and relevant experience, the total pool of available Irish, or even Irish resident candidates can be tiny. I mean barely into double figures at best and once you can discount people who are already happily employed and don’t want to move (and hence don’t even apply), it’s easy to end up with a large majority of foreign candidates. By then the London/Dublin/Not London/Not Dublin location question doesn’t really come into it, except insofar as London (inner London at least) just doesn’t have much of a manufacturing sector and there’s a vanishingly small probability that I’d be working at a company that was hiring there in the first place.


#1002

irishtimes.com/news/ireland/ … -1.2308654

once again I must state overseas visitors != tourists but neither Paschal Donohue or Bord Fáilte want the public to know this.


#1003

Population and Migration Estimates
April 2015

cso.ie/en/releasesandpublica … april2015/

Net outward migration falls to 11,600 in 2015


#1004

Emigration clear through QNHS Q2 2015

cso.ie/en/releasesandpublica … rter22015/

https://i.imgur.com/R6unk8K.png (15-34)


#1005

And there was me thinking all those still leaving Ireland were doing so for ‘lifestyle reasons’, or so the Politicians and Media heads tell us

One in six Irish-born people now live abroad
Ireland has highest share in OECD of over-15s born here but living overseas
irishtimes.com/life-and-styl … -1.2354097


#1006

The Irish Times article is not particularly informative. No Irish journalist really understands demographics except Dan O’Brien. We will always have a high share of Irish-born people living abroad as we have high gross migration of people who tend not to stay forever. People generally migrate just before or during their child-bearing years. You’ll find quite a few rural primary schools in Poland with Irish-born children.

The key finding from the recent population and migration statistics release was:
-Ireland is particularly attractive for the ‘RoW’ category. Net inward migration has been positive for three years now. The Irish labour market is kind to a mixture of the low-skilled happy to do menial work (hotel and nursing home work in the provinces) as well as high-skilled (IT I guess). For the low-skilled the low tax rate is undoubtedly appealing.
-Net outward migration of Irish is still very high. A large share of young people are leaving once they are a year or two out of college. This has always been the case but the rate increased during the downturn and hasn’t fallen much. And the ones who have gone aren’t coming home like they did in the mid-70s and late-90s when the economy picked up.

For a couple on professional wages average tax rates in Ireland are a lot less pleasant than elsewhere. Rising cost of rent - particularly in Dublin - probably also plays a part.


#1007

My kids will have been counted as Irish-born, even though they were born in France. They’ve never lived in Ireland.


#1008

How is that?


#1009

A child is automatically an Irish citizen if one of it’s parents was an Irish citizen who was born in Ireland.

A person can become an Irish citizen if one of their grandparents was born in Ireland, or they can become an Irish citizen if one of their parents was an Irish citizen at the time of their birth, but was not born in Ireland. If eligible, the birth can be registered on the Foreign Births Register.


#1010

But I would presume most Irish people abroad who have a child do not ring back to the Registrary office in Dublin to have the child recorded.
Or do they so as to be able to get a passport for the child for trips home?


#1011

We did it for passports and so the kids will be able to move to Ireland and go on the scratch as soon as they turn 18. I could only get French citizenship for the kids as infants if either I or my wife had no citizenship to pass to them (they can apply themselves for French citizenship once they turn 13 I think). Their other option is US citizenship, as my wife’s from there, but we didn’t pursue that for a variety of reasons.


#1012

Eh, these emigration figures are a bit off.

Firstly they’re not “new”. The figures are from 2010/2011.

The figures are taken from this report - Table 16 (page 41) & Table A6 (page 61)

oecd-ilibrary.org/docserver/download/5jxt2t3nnjr5.pdf?expires=1442510687&id=id&accname=guest&checksum=CDDAB055182452647A8F83392AF816F2

Ireland’s Total Emigration rate has actually fallen from 20.9% in 2000 to 17.5%.

Table A3 (page 56) shows that what has changed since 2000 is that a higher % of higher skilled left than in 2000.

There’s no explanatory tool for the actual dataset in the OECD library (i.e. I’ve no time to work it out and having downloaded the zip file its just a bunch of numbers)
oecd.org/els/mig/dioc.htm

The table being used by the media is Figure 2.1 (b) “Share of Native Born Population living abroad” Page 83 of the OECD survey
keepeek.com/Digital-Asset-Management/oecd/economics/oecd-economic-surveys-ireland-2015_eco_surveys-irl-2015-en#page84

If you look at the notes “Native Born” refers to those with nationality at the time of birth REGARDLESS OF PLACE OF BIRTH
which suggests the Irish Times headline “One in six Irish-born people now live abroad”] is technically untrue/unreliable


#1013

The problem is that “Irish-born” can reasonably mean either “born Irish” (i.e. Irish from birth) or “born in Ireland”. Unless we know definitively which is intended, it’s all a bit pointless.


#1014

Irish skilled-trade workers feel ‘cheated’ by Canada’s new immigration rules
Cabinetmaker Gerard Minogue was recruited to Canada at a job expo in Dublin in 2012, he and his family are trying to become permanent residents. Experts say the new immigration program favours those with formal post-secondary education and puts skilled-trade applicants at a disadvantage. Minogue made $126,000 last year. (€88,200)

€88k for a cabinet maker! I’m in the wrong job!


#1015

They were making similar money in Perth but a pint would cost €8-€10 average.


#1016

Latest figures per QNHS Q3 2015

-135,600 less 15-34 year olds in the Labour Force since coalition took over…


#1017

Yes but unless you run a decomposition of how much of this is due to net migration and how much of it is natural demographic change your point is moot.

Sorry I don’t have time to run this simulation right now.

Remember raw births peaked in 1980 and fell by something like a 1/3 to the trough in 1995.

Increased educational participation can also depress the participation rate of young. Remember population*participation rate=labour force.


#1018

Well that makes sense as I think 2006 was the lowest amount of students in the leaving cert cycle for decades.


#1019

We’ll easily exceed that in the next 10 years unfortunately


#1020

Heard this for the first time a few weeks ago, my father emailed me the link. Upsetting to listen to when you are on the other side of the world.

irishtimes.com/life-and-styl … -1.2642658

Personally Im at an age where for each extra bit I stay here it gets increasingly harder to return. If I stay another few years and return with a deposit for a house then Id be at an age where meeting someone to have kids with would be very hard or not possible. I`m in a good job with good pay and conditions in an ideal location for buying a house. Being realistic I would just not achieve anything similar in Ireland…not in terms of job and pay but in terms of commute and the kind of place I could live.

But it does break my heart as my parents age and I can`t be at home with them. A colleague from Belgium had an upsetting email from his sister during the week…their parents needs alot of care now and she feels that he has skipped away to be carefree etc etc