The Emigration Thread.


#1081

Saw a headline that the GAA guy in Boston had an outstanding arrest warrant. Don’t know the deets.


#1082

Without a doubt in parts of South Africa and Johannesburg there are significantly higher risks, but if you take into account the area where you will be operating (e.g. where you live, work and socialize), demographics and not upsetting my wife (this accounted for 60% of the murders in my subset) my personal risk factor was 5x what it is Dublin and 2x what it is in average US city if same criteria is applied. Its definitely higher, but I hardly walk out the door in Dublin and fear for my life. Even if you multiplied that risk by 5x.

Being in a car crash is still something you should be far more concerned with.

As I say, its a fantastic place and would make a fantastic chapter in your family’s life. The challenges arise with the school and university system for late teens. If you carry a Euro or US passport that doesn’t matter; you just work on the basis that your kids will attend college abroad.


#1083

The story suggested it was for the US as a whole.


#1084

"As I say, its a fantastic place and would make a fantastic chapter in your family’s life. The challenges arise with the school and university system for late teens. If you carry a Euro or US passport that doesn’t matter; you just work on the basis that your kids will attend college abroad. Billy Bob

Just by the way of an FYI - and this is directly from the TCD website and is typical of all European universities, in order to qualify for free or EU fees at uni, and avoid the eye watering international student rates, which I understand are three times the usual rate:

“The student must have been ordinarily resident in an EU Member State and must have received full-time post primary education in the EU for three of the five years prior to entry,” to qualify for EU fees. An EU passport on its own won’t allow anyone to avoid international student fees.

tcd.ie/study/eu/undergraduat … d-payments


#1085

Billy Bob

Just by the way of an FYI - and this is directly from the TCD website and is typical of all European universities, in order to qualify for free or EU fees at uni, and avoid the eye watering international student rates, which I understand are three times the usual rate:

“The student must have been ordinarily resident in an EU Member State and must have received full-time post primary education in the EU for three of the five years prior to entry,” to qualify for EU fees. An EU passport on its own won’t allow anyone to avoid international student fees.

tcd.ie/study/eu/undergraduat … d-payments

Agreed. But OP has a 2 year old and one on the way. He’s also only talking of heading out there for two years so I don’t think that becomes a big issue.

What I was saying is that BEE policies and quota systems mean that you probably need to look internationally for higher education and that will be your expectation from day one.

Most South African’s expect to have to pay international rates for their kids to attend a top college in UK or US.

This is obviously not your average Joe (or Bandile) on the street but I’d suggest it is reflective of the socio-economic cohort most expats would mix with.


#1086

Yep Billy Bob, I understood that OP has young kids, but my point was an FYI that people don’t realise often when they leave Europe with children, a European passport alone will not guarantee EU fees if parents want them to return to Ireland for higher education. Two years can easily run into 10. I went to London for 6 months myself and stayed for 28 years.

UK uni fees were around 9k per annum for European citizens the last time I looked, but for international students or those with EU or U.K. Passports who have been abroad for the last three years before application (including diplomats kids and kids of those in the armed forces who have been based outside Europe) it can jump to about 40k per year for a course such as medicine at a Russell Group University. That is an enormous expense for anyone, especially for a course that may be 6 years long.

Anyone living in the U.K. now with young teens, and thinking about Ireland or Europe as a university location for them in the future would probably do well to get them an EU passport and move them by GCSE stage because no-one knows what will happen after Brexit.

In my experience, people too often assume an EU passport alone will entitle their children to go to a European university at European rates, and they have no concept of how high international student fees can be. I just think it is worth noting.


#1087

Thanks for your the clarification and I agree that is something that does surprise people.

As an aside, I think it’s prudent to assume that in general where ever you at in the world you’re going to have to pay US style college fees for kid higher education; essentially employing the adage plan for the worst and hope for the best.

Bringing that back to the SA example that’s certainly what everyone does there.


#1088

It’s largely because graduates need to have reasonably high salaries to pay anything at all. A graduate with a degree that leads to a low paying job that probably never needed a degree in the first place will, under the UK student loan rules, quite legitimately never need to pay a penny and will show up in the statistics as a defaulter.


#1089

The Irish system combines reasonably high upfront fees with no loans. The first is a feature of Anglo-Saxon systems and the second of continental ones.

I think it’s the best model for a few reasons.

The upfront fees are good as it makes students and their parents think clearly about whether the course is really needed. Drop-out rates are higher than they should be in Ireland but they are a lot lower than in France.

Loan schemes are trying to solve a problem that doesn’t exist. First, given that there is already a means-tested grant system in place, there is no evidence that lack of funds is impeding access by disadvantaged groups. Second, it gives young people more money than they need at a young age and it’s not always spent wisely. I saw this with some friends from the UK years ago. Paying back loans at 23 for their drinking at age 19. Third, Ireland already has a highly progressive tax system. If your degree doesn’t lead to high earnings then you won’t pay much income tax. If it does you will.

Loan schemes are pushed by a few people:
-academics who reckon it’ll be more acceptable to raise fees (more lolly on campus and higher salaries)
-financial intermediaries who will be able to charge nice fees on administering the schemes
-fiscal authorities who see it as a way of keeping public debt off the balance sheet

The motives of all of those in favour should be questioned.