The International Trade (War) Thread


#21

Yeah, fair enough; but by ‘us’, I mean not ‘them’ :slight_smile: It’s a point I’ve made myself in terms of “things are getting worse”; actually they’re getting better overall. Still, for a lot of the old industrial nations, manufacturing as they used to know it is gone and not coming back. It quite depressing to read that the Brexiters think they’re going to compete in manufacturing with Asia; it just isn’t going to happen.

That it is a good thing overall doesn’t detract from the fact that it is bad for specific groups close to us; particularly those in countries with low general education attainment like the US and the UK. The move to paying for third-level education is particularly bad for the long-term, I reckon.


#22

I can’t help but feel that the UK/USA treating education as an entitlement rather than a societal necessity has backfired spectacularly with Trump and Brexit. I had to grimace last week when at a dinner party in England a guest said she’d pass on an opportunity to work in Spain for a period as it may “dilute/taint her superior British education”.

In their bubble many still think they’re it and in no way are their current social funding cutbacks anything to with lost competitivity. This perception of superiority is only amplified by high fees, which are seen as a justified premium on a “superior British education!”.

Meanwhile the standard of domestic entrants to third level continues to fall as fewer are willing to take on the bigger student debt. The UK and USA remain increasingly dependent on the produce of other nations state funded education systems.


#23

Why couldn`t it have happened anyway? Europe rebuilt after WW2, why hasn’t the third world ever gotten up off its ass?


#24

No Marshall plan.
The need to build support in Europe and Japan as a buffer against the USSR helped the US have an interest in ensuring Europe and Japan regained their standard of living.
Europe already knew how to industrialise and not everything was destroyed in WW2.
A lot of Countries only decolonized after WW2 and most had no native industries as the Colonizer used them as a source of cheap raw materials and a market for their finished products.
Unfair trade balance between developed and developing.
Access to capital.


#25

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Belt_ … Initiative

Vs
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_containment_policy


#26

smh.com.au/politics/federal … 4z8j9.html

https://static.ffx.io/images/$zoom_0.596%2C$multiply_0.9669499527856469%2C$ratio_1.776846%2C$width_1059%2C$x_0%2C$y_0/t_crop_custom/t_sharpen%2Cq_auto%2Cf_auto/e042991594ffa135583e2da35d1ee17c1daea230


#27

A far higher level of corruption and lack of democracy would play a part too


#28

TPP is back on the cards.

From the FT.

China is filling the vacuum left by Trump in the pacific region.


#29

Manufacturing in the USA has not collapse, most manufacturing jobs were lost to automation and people moving onto better quality work

counterpunch.org/2012/10/15 … g-decline/

How has Globalisation been a bad thing? Globalisation has been with us since we were put on this good green Earth.


#30

That article mentions nothing about France, which is right next door.
Realistically, China will have bases in the SouthPacific and all over and will challenge USA hegemony worldwide.


#31

World trade system in danger of being torn apart, warns IMF


#32

theguardian.com/commentisfr … t#comments

https://sl.sbs.com.au/public/image/file/d14f5131-debc-4cf8-b9e7-946ccfc8dc92
sbs.com.au/news/angela-merk … depressing


#33

I thought that photo was photoshopped first time I saw it. Incredible image.


#34

Certainly diverted any attention away from Bilderberg going on in Turin over the weekend. Paschal the Rascal and the bould Mick O’Leary donning the green jersey this time. Alongside some other punter:
Brennan, Eamonn (IRL), Director General, Eurocontrol


#35


macrobusiness.com.au/2018/0 … -us-pooch/


#36

Pah. The American economy and American businesses are built on the quick buck. As soon as they can outsource it, they’re off. I look at the company I work for, American born and bred, created the industry, was once the world leader. Now spends all its time cutting expensive (experienced) American workers to outsource to Poland and India. Mostly to India at this stage.

Unfettered capitalism is America’s problem. Making everyone else poor too isn’t going to solve that.


#37

This is capitalism working properly, improving living conditions for hundreds of millions of people around the world. China used to have 97% of it’s population engaged in agriculture.

Using trade barriers in an attempt to turn back the clock to some kind of post-war golden age of US manufacturing isn’t going to work, it’s just going to make Americans poorer because the products they consume are going to get more expensive.

Might keep Tesla around for a while longer though.


#38

The middle class is getting poorer and the factory jobs/blue collar workers have disappeared so what is the incentive to maintain the status quo for these people? The fear that they might not be able to afford the latest smartphone ? What good is that if your only viable jobs are uber or deliveroo


#39

By what metric? In PPP terms?


#40

The aggregate benefit of hundreds of millions of Chinese becoming richer appears to be greater than the aggregate disbenefit of a few million, or even a few tens of millions of Americans becoming poorer, so in straightforward utilitarian terms, Eschatologist is correct. Still, it’s unlikely many people take much personal satisfaction from being one of the eggs cracked into making the omelette.