The Irish Education system. Bork central


#1116

It’s easier to appeal against if they mark it wrong? :-GC


#1117

Hey! Teacher! Leave them kids alone!


#1118

dup


#1119

#1120

Seems there’ll be no appeal - Minister Bruton promises to fix the system which his Department spent four days defending in the High Court (or did the State Examinations Commission go on a solo run :blush: )

The system was creaking at the seams. UCD brought in a deadline of 30 September this year, to stop students joining a course later after they successfully appealed their results. How were the students supposed to catch up with over a month of missed lectures?

irishtimes.com/news/educati … -1.3643905


#1121

Presumably the following is the ultimate destination of the type of kite-flying referenced above …

thetimes.co.uk/article/fund … -qsd702gkd

‘No borders’ is code for no delineation in cultural terms and is cover for what Ive listened to a number of Indian and Pakistani muslims decsribe gleefully as ‘reverse colonisation’…


#1122

One way to get people to take up and defend Irish will be if Hindi is urged to replace it as more people speak Hindi.


#1123

Hindus in the UK generally tend to integrate to a large extent and also to outperform the indigenous population in educational (and professional) terms within a generation or two.

Its quite interesting to contrast their experience with that of the majority of their Muslim compatriots and cousins from north of the border who (as Ms Riaz points out in the quoted excerpt), are on the receiving end of Islamophic practice and policy that, presumably, restrict their societal advancement.

Im often struck by the manner in which Hinduphobia and Budhaphobia (or indeed Chinophobia, Vietphobia, Philipinophobia, Polishphobia or Brazilianphobia) have never really taken off to the same extent as the Islamic version…it (islamophobia) being one of the great evils of our time for which we should feel collective shame…


#1124

You generally need a war for a Phobia. If Britain were at war with India you’d soon see Hindiophobia. As it is the West and the Muslim world are at war and therefore you have Islamophobia. There was a great deal of Polishophobia/Euphobia following Brexit and that was just a war of words.


#1125

Now we have 300 students to be accommodated on courses, many of which began a month ago.

irishtimes.com/news/educati … -1.3658623

Perhaps the real question is why we ration courses at all? There are enough third-level courses for all Leaving Cert students but there is intense competition for certain courses. Why not simply increase the places on popular courses?

There seem to be no problem with the students’ ability - there is practically zero failure rates in medical courses.

Imagine a world without the Leaving Cert points rat race?


#1126

Most diaspora Hindus are of the Brahmin caste.

Like Brahmins back in India, they tend to occupy elite positions in society.


#1127

The appeals system timelines need to get sorted but your question above is the more important question. As best as I can answer it we built it when there was more of a supply and demand issue in the 80’s and also a time when there was great concern about people being able to get unfair advantage.

The CAO very effectively dealt with these issues. There was a massive increase in the number of college places from the 90’s on and many of the supply and demand issues for many courses went away. By then an industry had grown up around the CAO system. I think the CAO could set up a parallel system which would allocate places based on 5th year results or something similar. Courses could be migrate to this system if it suited their needs better. In many cases it would. That would leave a few high demand courses in the current system.


#1128

Not strictly true.

But assuming it was the case, the same argument could be made with regard to Sikhs in the UK or elsewhere vis a vis Muslims, Sikhism being a religion that rejects the caste system entirely (at least in theory).


#1129

Muslims and Sikhs may ‘reject’ the caste system, but that doesn’t mean they can opt out of it.

Your religion and/or caste status follows you round like a bad smell in India. It impacts on what you can work at, who you can socialise with, where you can live, and who you can marry. Indians know the caste status of literally every other Indian they know.

Outsiders don’t really understand this.

Brahmins have been the most high-status class in India for a millenium, and practice marital endogamy. It is no surprise that their descendants tend to do well professionally outside India too.


#1130

Or like a good smell, if you’re at the top

They play the person of color card very well, particularly in the US

What this has to do with the Irish education system is anyone’s guess


#1131

Well someone raised diaspora Indians.

I only ever met one Irish-raised person of Indian descent in the Irish education system.

He was on the way to a phd, and indeed was a Brahmin.

I am not certain, but it is very likely that Leo Varadkar’s father is from a high caste.


#1132

While caste remains highly relevant in India (especially outside the urban ‘metros’), its importance has diminished to a degree during recent times.

By way of example, this lady, Devyani Khobragade, was at the centre of a large diplomatic spat between the Indians and the US in 2013 due to her importation of a nanny from India on a diplomatic visa, whom she subseuqently paid at well less than what comstitutes the minimum wage in the US.

Khobragade, a diplomat, is of dalit caste ie the ‘untouchables’ who traditionally cleaned toilets etc.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devyani_K … e_incident

While Brahmins do generally remain better off the Dalits (or others), education and wealth attainment by many, especially young people who have moved into the large cities away rom extended family networks, has lessened some of the old demarcations.


#1133

Interestingly the most common surname name for a medic in the United States is Patel. Which isn’t a Brahmin caste as far as I can make out…


#1134

Any good online articles on the Indian Caste system. I work with a lot of Indians, it’s hard to get a handle on what is going on in their interactions. You see ones whose job is of lower importance but carrying much more weight in conversations amongst them and vice-versa.

I remember talking to a couple of them when drink was taken and one of them saying that they didn’t listen to the line manager because he was an untouchable and only got the job because of equality legislation. The others, once they found out what we were discussing, shut him up and drank up. I had thought the line manager inept but subsequently you could see that the rest of the Indian members of our team were constantly undermining him and he didn’t enough self-confidence to enforce his will.


#1135

I think the dominance of the Brahmins is not set in stone. They are the priestly class, but with modern times commercial savvy/tradition is more important.

Jews were traditionally banned from many sectors but it’s arguably worked out in their favour