The Irish Education system. Bork central


#942

College Mgmt don’t count in this. Unions call the shots


#943

I think in general the power moves about a bit between management and unions. As you say on this issue it seems always on the side of no redundancies (or is it no-redundancy costs). I suspect many union members would be happy to be made redundant.


#944

Of course many would and the Unions will be glad to see members paid off including their own officials on site…as long as it’s noted that the role still exists and has not being done away with. So at first sign of a rebound, the posts get filled again.
Rinse and repeat


#945

The real issue with Tipp IT is it should never have been established in the first place. North Tipp is very close to Limerick city which had both a university and IT so there was no need for the new institute. To my memory it was set up as a bribe by FF to keep Michael Lowry’s vote in that FF/PD coalition which was supported by independents.


#946

+1…and GMIT was another joke of a political stroke


#947

OK but if you look at the activity of the IT system it is way higher than when the staff cuts came in. Therefore there should be work for these guys. I would only argue for redundencies if they are genuinely idle (i.e. their subject is no longer taught, is unlikely to be taught soon and they can’t be retrained). Of course if HE expands the headcount may rise in the future but if they make ceratin discipline specialists redundant and then rehire similar expertise in a few years that would be a scandal. As there has been no redundencies this is an academic debate. My point is that college management would likely want to be free to make certain subject specialists redundant. The reason they are not is outside their control. The argument that the unions are blocking such a standard HR tool seems (we agree) inadequate to explain it. It seems to be the politicians or maybe the civil service blocking it - hence these stories (although it is still not clear if these people are idle).


#948

Bear in mind the Tipp operations still exist but are now under LIT’s governance and brand. I think Tipp may have needed a HE presence (the distances to Limerick are similar to Dublin-Dundalk) but setting it up under its own Brand seemed to be a triumph of Tipp “nationalism” over reality. Bringing it in under an established brand and management structure has belatedly happened but probably should have been the original model.


#949

I thought the coalition are doing something about Church control of schools? Didn’t Quinn make some big statements about it? Maybe Labour are too busy figuring out how to lose all those seats they won last time out.

theguardian.com/world/2015/o … -education


#950

PISA Tests in Ireland are conducted by **Department of Education examinations branch ** staff and also ERC staff from Drumcondra. They take place every 3 years. Not every 15 old gets tested when it is ‘their’ year because they are 15 but more tests are carried out in Ireland than we are obliged to report to the OECD from what I hear.

The testers land into a school and request access to a cohort of 15 year olds…the only target of the tests… and promptly request that the responsible teacher leave the room. Department of Education and ERC staff are not legally allowed access to a school class save under supervision of a registered teacher. These people are not registered with the teaching council and are not insured for classrooms. Therefore they do NOT go to schools where school insurance related ‘issues’ arise frequently. Who wants a court case. :slight_smile:

However Department of Education staff are instructed to get rid of the teacher from the room despite their not being insured or permitted and having not indemnified the school in full for the breach of insurance conditionalities as they want no professional oversight while they administer the PISA tests. The current PISA 2015 test cycle started in 2014 and will be published in 2016.

PISA testing is somewhat controversial to say the least, the 3 year cycle is nuts and 7 years would be perfectly fine but Government Policy is for Ireland to be in the top 5 in the EU, no matter what. :slight_smile:

washingtonpost.com/news/ans … isa-tests/


#951

All the Private School old Boys on here can sleep easy tonight in their mock Tudor semi-d’s…the ties that bind are to remain in place. I never doubted Labour, the Socialist Party, to do any different!

Controversial plans to change ‘old school tie’ admissions bite dust
independent.ie/irish-news/ed … 72115.html

I think the young pup journalist writing this article needs to look at some of the Labour hierarchy too for their schooling history, not just FG


#952

This. Ruari Quinn’s back will hurt from the backslapping.

If there’s any justice in this world George Ruairi Dimitri Liam’s place in notionally Catholic Blackrock assured. What’s our ethos? Well its no longer Catholic!


#953

“George Ruairi Dimitri Liam Quinn”

A nice paen there to Labour’s Red history!
And why do the rich always stick about 7 names on their kids. Never understood that. Is it to keep all the Patriarchs in the family happy and ensure the old money comes their way when the Wills are being read out!!!


#954

Sometimes that works the other way around though. I remember an early profile of Michael D. Higgins in the SBP around the time he was first appointed a Minister where they tried to paint him as a champagne socialist. They noted that his children were being “educated by the Jesuits” when they would have known that a majority of their readership would be unaware that the Jesuit school in Galway is non-fee paying and would instead have imagined something along the lines of Clongowes/Belvedere/Gonzaga.


#955

I doubt the SBP knows much in Ireland outside of what happens in SCD!
Hanlon’s razor and all that :laughing:


#956

Anyone have any experience with Monkstown Educate Together or The Childrens House in Stillorgan? Debating between the two: convenience vs. cost…


#957

Our kids are in METNS. We’re very happy. It’s expanded significantly in recent years, and is now double-streamed all the way. The numbers are above 450, a long way from its first incarnation in prefabs near the Blue Pool.
You will need to apply early. As in, the first month of your kid’s infancy (stories of in utero applications may be apocryphal). There are long waiting lists.
As someone who was active on the Honey Park thread, I needn’t tell you that the new tranche of accommodation there will put further future pressure on numbers. In fact, I have no idea where children from the greater area will be schooled.

I know nothing about The Children’s House.


#958

Do you really want to send your kids to a school that accepts Pinsters though???


#959

That’s great to hear, we were offered a place there for our four year old, having applied when she was a week old! What’s it like for voluntary contributions, class sizes, extra curricular activities etc? What do you mean by streamed? On what objective criteria can you judge a school other than denomination, pedagogy style and class size?

The children’s house is a Montessori school in Stillorgan where said four year old is doing her ECCE. It is unusual in that it teaches using the Montessori method up to the age of 12, ie, instead of a “mainstream” education. It’s great and all but is fee paying and the far side of the N11.

Yes, it is incredible that with the amount of housing being built in Honeypark that no new schools are being built. I think that the planning permission for the on site creche should be converted to an extension of METNS - would be incredible for a school to have the Honeypark facilities on site (park and playground).


#960

I’ll teach them the secret hand shake and they can get together to form a support group…


#961

For me, it was a mixture of:

  • Class size (or rather, teacher/student ratio)
  • Principal
  • Type of parents

We turned down a place in an otherwise excellent school because we didn’t like the principal, and thought the particular group of parents seems like complete pains in the ass. You’re going to have to deal with these people for 8 years, and your kid is going to mix with theirs, so you want to like them. Try and go to an open day or parent’s meeting for your child’s year of entry.

Re the principal, the entire ethos of the school will flow from him or her. The school we chose has an amazing and massively impressive headmistress who clearly know a vast amount about educating small people and cares hugely about it. It shows in all sorts of small and large ways.

Sadly the latter two are not objective, but you’ll know it when you see it.