The Irish Education system. Bork central


#1127

The appeals system timelines need to get sorted but your question above is the more important question. As best as I can answer it we built it when there was more of a supply and demand issue in the 80’s and also a time when there was great concern about people being able to get unfair advantage.

The CAO very effectively dealt with these issues. There was a massive increase in the number of college places from the 90’s on and many of the supply and demand issues for many courses went away. By then an industry had grown up around the CAO system. I think the CAO could set up a parallel system which would allocate places based on 5th year results or something similar. Courses could be migrate to this system if it suited their needs better. In many cases it would. That would leave a few high demand courses in the current system.


#1128

Not strictly true.

But assuming it was the case, the same argument could be made with regard to Sikhs in the UK or elsewhere vis a vis Muslims, Sikhism being a religion that rejects the caste system entirely (at least in theory).


#1129

Muslims and Sikhs may ‘reject’ the caste system, but that doesn’t mean they can opt out of it.

Your religion and/or caste status follows you round like a bad smell in India. It impacts on what you can work at, who you can socialise with, where you can live, and who you can marry. Indians know the caste status of literally every other Indian they know.

Outsiders don’t really understand this.

Brahmins have been the most high-status class in India for a millenium, and practice marital endogamy. It is no surprise that their descendants tend to do well professionally outside India too.


#1130

Or like a good smell, if you’re at the top

They play the person of color card very well, particularly in the US

What this has to do with the Irish education system is anyone’s guess


#1131

Well someone raised diaspora Indians.

I only ever met one Irish-raised person of Indian descent in the Irish education system.

He was on the way to a phd, and indeed was a Brahmin.

I am not certain, but it is very likely that Leo Varadkar’s father is from a high caste.


#1132

While caste remains highly relevant in India (especially outside the urban ‘metros’), its importance has diminished to a degree during recent times.

By way of example, this lady, Devyani Khobragade, was at the centre of a large diplomatic spat between the Indians and the US in 2013 due to her importation of a nanny from India on a diplomatic visa, whom she subseuqently paid at well less than what comstitutes the minimum wage in the US.

Khobragade, a diplomat, is of dalit caste ie the ‘untouchables’ who traditionally cleaned toilets etc.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devyani_K … e_incident

While Brahmins do generally remain better off the Dalits (or others), education and wealth attainment by many, especially young people who have moved into the large cities away rom extended family networks, has lessened some of the old demarcations.


#1133

Interestingly the most common surname name for a medic in the United States is Patel. Which isn’t a Brahmin caste as far as I can make out…


#1134

Any good online articles on the Indian Caste system. I work with a lot of Indians, it’s hard to get a handle on what is going on in their interactions. You see ones whose job is of lower importance but carrying much more weight in conversations amongst them and vice-versa.

I remember talking to a couple of them when drink was taken and one of them saying that they didn’t listen to the line manager because he was an untouchable and only got the job because of equality legislation. The others, once they found out what we were discussing, shut him up and drank up. I had thought the line manager inept but subsequently you could see that the rest of the Indian members of our team were constantly undermining him and he didn’t enough self-confidence to enforce his will.


#1135

I think the dominance of the Brahmins is not set in stone. They are the priestly class, but with modern times commercial savvy/tradition is more important.

Jews were traditionally banned from many sectors but it’s arguably worked out in their favour


#1136

Children’s charity Barnardos is calling on the Government to make school books free for primary school students.

It wants the €20 million measure introduced in Budget 2020 and said this cost would only account for 0.2% of the Department of Education’s overall budget.

How long before the price of textbooks would double, should this be brought in?


#1137

#1138

Notice how media reports are solely concerned with the cost to parents. There is no discussion about quality of accommodation and its effects on the educational experience of the student.

Irish universities have always been allowed to shirk their responsibilities for student accommodation. As our third level institutions have grown beyond recognition, their lack of collegial atmosphere has become painfully obvious. Ask any recent graduate about their involvement in college life, beyond the bare minimum attendance at lectures and completing coursework. This is particularly obvious in the humanities. Most Irish college student live at home for economic reasons and their third-level education might as well be online courses for all the contact they have with faculty or fellow students. Some are commuting into Dublin from 80 miles away so they skip early morning lectures.

Who cares so long as they get a couple of letters after their name ?


#1139

One of Ireland’s universities is suing another over the alleged poaching of an academic staff member. Maynooth University has brought High Court proceedings against University College Dublin over Professor Kath Browne’s move from the Co Kildare-based college to Belfield.
Prof Browne, the court heard, is a professor of Geographies of Sexualities and Genders. She joined Maynooth University following an open competition in 2017.
The university claims that last May she was approached by UCD and advised to apply for a position with the Dublin college.
She tendered her resignation from Maynooth in June 2019 and is expected to take up her new role as a professor at UCD in September.

A really productive use of the Education budget here. Can anyone working in private industry think of a situation where two businesses with the same owner would sue each other. The respective CEOs would get the boot.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/ucd-sued-by-maynooth-university-over-alleged-poaching-of-staff-1.3999120


#1140

“Professor of Geographies of Sexualities and Genders”? WTF does that even mean? Any in private industry would be counting their lucky stars they didn’t have to pay to get rid of her.


#1141

Private sector, no, but it does remind me of the time the HSE were taking actions against HIQA to prevent publication or maybe seeking redaction of some terrible report or other.

Found it: https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/taoiseach-criticises-hse-plans-to-sue-hiqa-over-damning-baby-deaths-report-31091615.html


#1142

Any pinsters out there with insight into occupancy rates of new build student units in Dublin?
Here is an interesting article on luxury student digs in the US and how it maybe in bubble territory.


#1143

That would be very interesting to see, took a recent trip through Belfield and it appears that there are blocks of 10+ stories under construction (maybe earmarked for Sep 20 intake). They better hope the conveyor belt of Chinese students keep coming to fill them…


#1144

Like many things in Ireland, there’s an existing deficit.
There’s a population bulge coming through for the next nice years or so (i have one offspring right in peak bulge that has 5 years left of secondary).
After that there’ll be some decline, yes.
Brexit will mean a reduction in the numbers that go to the UK (from Ireland) for university (accelerating the trend the high UK fees have started).
And Brexit will leave Ireland as the premier english language university location (though many universities on the continent offer english language teaching).


#1145

I don’t dispute that there is an existing deficit, but my point is that I don’t think this deficit is being addressed by these special purpose student residences which go for between 240-270pw. That is essentially asking 2 students to pay 2k for a 2 bed apt…how sustainable is this?

It is a bit like the huge deficit in the rental market but there are examples of new units (e.g. the ‘One Ballsbridge’ development) that are still empty many months after coming on stream due to the astronomical asking prices.


#1146

Yeah, asking prices have gone to lunatic levels for sure.
The DIT accommodation is for about 1k a month, for 9 months (which is sometimes hard to get from a private landlord); and is bills included. It is possible to do it cheaper privately, though apparently is now harder given the clampdown on AirBnB (weekly renting seems to be popular to keep a lid on costs).
None of which helps assess the medium term value of the apartments! Are they good for anything else should numbers fall?