What could possibly go wrong
Cumbria future new nuclear power plant planning application pre planning, is open for comments for 9 days only. This will be the biggest and polluting plant ever on the Irish doorstep, and what are we going to do about contamination of air water and food production issues.
I really couldn’t care less about this. You reap what you sow.
It sounds like their pension is really being decimated, less than a few years after they agreed to cuts with Mgmt in the same scheme.
Justine McCarthy was on radio last Monday talking about this and how she will end up with less than 10k per year. She sounded upset but didn’t want to blame the 2 majority shareholders, Denis O’Brien or Dermot Desmond. As they are such busy billionaires, she reckons they wouldn’t be aware of minor issues like this at their businesses. Instead it’s the local Mgmt who are trying to force through their own ideology!!!
And who said Journalists weren’t independent of their Owners in the Irish media!!!
Surprised they still had a DB scheme in place. I didn’t think DOB would have any time for that.
I find it fascinating that on one hand people understand that Ireland has fully taken on board the “sky high cost of living” approach of large parts of the US…
… and yet they can’t see the straight line that might lead to many of them becoming (Ireland’s future equivalent of) the Walmart Greeter in their old age.
Then again, I find anyone who feels remotely secure about their future as an employee in the private sector modern office environment once they hit 45 to be crazy
This personally affects my parents, who are looking at a cut of about ~50% of their combined retirement income, and my dad was due to start receiving the pension in a few months’ time
He was working in a non-journalism job in INM and was let go one of the later rounds of ‘restructuring’
Not to say a DB pension is sustainable (especially given how few employees they have relative to the number of retirees or near-retirees) but they’re right to be pissed, the goalposts were moved again and again by INM here
Why the lack of sympathy, Coles2?
I’m biased because - quite like igy - I have a family member who had been in a non-journalism job at IMN for a long time. They were let go through restructuring a few years back and are now getting around 50% of what had been anticipated.
I sometimes ask how they could have believed that the generous defined benefit scheme was sustainable. But from the workers’ point of view, they signed up for a job in their 20s that came with a salary and various perks (like a pension, over-time rates and a family movie at Christmas time in the Ambassador, complete with appearance by the real Santa (who wasn’t just some lad from the Systems Department dressed up)).
For those late in their careers (or effectively at the end), the rules have been changed very late in the day without much chance to ‘plan for the future’ by retraining or getting new sources of income/savings.
I believe Coles might have an issue with the Indo’s coverage of all things Sinn Fein, not that he’s a supporter of them of course !!!
What Indo pensioners were due to get was pretty gold-plated. At the same time, as Martin Fitzpatrick said on Prime Time last night, joining the scheme was compulsory. People saw it as their life savings and poured their bonuses into it; took on overtime and double-shifts so they could add a bit extra in for their retirement. To end up with less than you put in yourself must be a bitter pill. They could have just not worked the extra shifts or taken their overtime pay as cash and gone to Florida.
I don’t know if your comment has been misunderstood Coles2 but that would be an unusual view of it. Even if you dislike Indo’s owner or management or editorial writers, most of the people getting shafted here are none of the above. The company is closing the pension funds and paying dividends to shareholders for the first time in a decade. Fairly brazen stuff; they hadn’t the decency to wait a year!
Is this what happened? I saw Justine McCarthy on prime time last night - she reckons she contributed 47K over her indo career but was due to receive 10K.
Is that 10K per year or a 10K annuity?
If its 10K per year its still a pretty sweet deal but if its a 10K annuity its a stinker.
It’s interesting the watch the pension dominoes fall one by one.
The daddy of them all - state pensions - will hold out until the very end.
But the figures are simply too overwhelming.
A ‘reorganisation’ is inevitable.
Best not rely on anyone else for your future.
But how to do that?
I’ve had this conversation various times.
The DB scheme looks great in theory, but it’s only as reliable as the counterparty offering to pay it. Because of the precedence given to people already on pension, and the tendency to let things get to the wire before calling halt, that means that those who are towards the end of their career when it gets closed/rationalised will tend to do disproportionately badly out of it all (they get cut hard so some others don’t get cut at all).
But the DC world is pretty precarious, and hard to build up the pot required (or even to be confident at this remove, 20-30 years in my case what that pot would be). And we’ve seen in the form of pension levies that that money is not safe either. You say that the state DB scheme will fall last, but the private DC funds have already been raided to pay state DB pensions, so that could be quite some time.
Fundamentally, pensions should be DB, at whatever level we manage to fund them. Also, no matter what saving and other mechanisms are put in place, when retired you end up being funded by those still working, at least to the extent you need to use labour and current production. The meat and potatoes you eat are grown by the people working at that time, and if you eat them it means that another person who’s working can’t.
I have to say the whole thing makes me feel very precarious (working, decent job, decent salary, DC scheme)
There’s no way to escape the fact that retired people have to be supported by those working, one way or another, because assets=liabilities.
For instance, if I accumulate a load of rental properties during my working life, there still need to be tenants to pay the rent when I retire.
If we end up with one pensioner for every working person, then clearly the average pensioner can’t have more than one working tenant paying them rent.
Feels like a zero-sum game.
There are key life essentials and then there is everything else.
Irish pension class wishes to have both.
But really unless you paid for it you cannot be expecting it. And even if you did pay for it there are no guarantees for the little people, unless you are willing to revolt and loose all for what might be even more tenuous gains.
A key matter is that older people are going to have to keep working longer to support their longer lifespans. i.e. keep actively supporting the economy. This could prove very very difficult for some as re-training for many older persons proves to be highly ineffective and many of those older persons probably have a dream in mind of retiring and having good times from age 65 or 68.
It’s a very difficult situation. I’m very unprepared. But I do sometimes feel that for the little that I did prepare that it was better to have just that little than more since Michael Noonan decided to steal from my former earnings for his buddies.
the latter I would have thought;
I guess the assumption is that the company pays on your behalf and you take a lower salary as a trade off…
I didn’t see Prime Time but that sounds odd? putting money in like that - for a DB scheme? - either that or the Indo scheme is like the Waterford WedgeWood clusterfuck,
Correct. And its not like its any kind of surprise.
Back in the mid’70’s to mid '80’s, when most of the current batch of recent or about to retirees would have been starting their working careers, there was plenty of discussion in the media at the time about the Baby Boom retirement crisis, the likely increase in life expectancy , making it even worse, and the likely unsustainability of the then current system. Which is pretty much what we still have today. If you were paying the slightest bit of attention to the news back then you would have heard something about this future crisis. Which is now upon us. But only the Ozzies and Kiwis seemed to deal with the problem in a half sensible way back then. The UK made a bit of a mess, good initial idea, completely gutted by Gordon Browns taxes. The US punted in '86 with its pure Ponzi “Trust Fund”. And Ireland did nothing except belatedly up the retirement age by a year or two. Rather than the 10 needed just to keep it aligned with the rise in life expectancy in the last 40 years.
I always have assumed that the Boomers would gut the system and leave the next generation with little but wreckage. Which is the current trajectory. I have also assumed that our generation would have to earn our keep till we keeled over. Or else live in a downward trending genteel poverty.
And that was before the current ZIRP, NIRP insanity which will destroy the private pension system if continued much longer. Even if it does survive I fully expected it to be expropriated in some form or other some time in the future in the name of “social justice”. Most likely to pay for public sector pensions which are de-facto partially or completely unfunded.
If the mid/tail end Boomer want to keep their pensions, or even part of them, long term they better face up to having every single sacred political cow of theirs taken out and shot and thrown on the bon-fire of the carcasses before they totally destroy the Wests economic future once and for all. But given Japans recent history over the last 20 years I’m not exactly optimistic.