The Knowledge Economy Thread!

Lets begin with:

Irish Times

so is it all bluff? Or is it that they just dont like change? . . . .

and finally:

Irish Times

AN example of a MIT project … ed&search=

and now who has it and bringing it to market … ed&search=

the knowledge economy is based on ensuring that Masters & PhD gads can do their work on a €1,000 computer from Dell & a stuent version of Matlab.

SO they won’t be doing anything like this then :wink:

Irish Times

Its not the childrens fault, they are maligned by a malfunctioning system based on an out dated and simply WRONG concept of learning.

Oh and its headed by a bunch of vested interests with great pensions & holidays who resist radical progressive change as its threat to their economic way of life.

What should be more scary is that they gave out 50k results this year and 64k results in 1997 (give or take).

How does a concept of learning that has worked in the past suddenly become “WRONG”. Last I checked, Leaving Cert science has changed that much in the last decade or two!

Don’t get me wrong, any concept of learning can be improved upon. Indeed, some concepts can be replaced by better concepts. But a concept can’t just become ineffective overnight, unless it’s implemented incorrectly or the pesky kids just don’t pay attention because it’s not “interactive” enough or whatever.

I’m in danger or ranting here, but kids are gradually being insulated from taking responsibility for themselves. Teachers can’t discipline effectively (not harshly, just effectively) for fear of being dragged in front of a school board. I mean, kids can’t even run in playgrounds anymore because the school get sued if they fall. It’s ridiculous - just patch up their knee and send them on their way. Kids play and run, that’s what you’re supposed to do when you’re a kid!

Likewise, we blame the system when kids don’t pay attention in school. I was a smart kid once, but was a lazy bugger in secondary school. I failed my higher level maths mock, but was able to scrape a C in the Leaving by applying myself for just three nights! I blame myself for that, not the teacher I had. It’s too easy to blame everybody else, when what I (and my other lazy bugger classmates!) needed to do was a bit of hard work and not act the dipso every day in class!

You’re absolutely right, the subject matter hasn’t changed dramatically (unless one of those over uity heads mess witht he laws :wink: )yet we have years of simialr results decline in some areas rise in others, its very avergae.

For the sake of arguement lets say there is always going to be a 20% who do well in subjects all of the time. So what for the other 80%, from mediocrity downwards.

Firstly we must note, this educational system ascribes mediocre values to 80% of participants. Thats not right now is it? Is that the kind of energy efficeny we want to achieve in our educational systems? I don’t think so. Surely we should be striving for 100% success.

Now of this 80% its not the end of the world, they do have lots of other choices, trades, apprenticeships, plcs, vocational courses etc. etc…

Hang on a sec, then why did we push these people through this system in the first place if it was not for them, wrong?

Why did we waste all that time, energy & money? Only to turn out below standard goods/students?

Would it be perhaps because we have a very flawed logic in our approach?

Would it be that the failure of the system itself is only manifest in maligning the participants and thus apportioning it directly on them. Creating a perfect distraction to the failings of the system. Taking the heat the edicational system and palcing it on the student.

(I’m not avoiding the other issues you raised about personal motivation and student behaviour. I merely want to treat the system on a educational basis not one that becomes a proxy for social ills.)

The most important thing I’ve learned through this system and it took a while is that;

  1. We are born with universe installed, in ate learning capacity/faculty

  2. This is deprogrammed to varying degrees, even destroyed in Irelands Educaiton system.

Theres your’ feckin bubble baby! The system makes us collectively stoopid by applauding one size fits all mediocrity.

I guess I was commenting on the decline within the current system, rather than on the system itself.

You also have to bear in mind that, by definition, there has to be mediocrity within the set of people doing the leaving cert because it’s all comparative. You need to define the average to decide who is average, who is above-average and who is below-average, and the average is calculated upon the results of the group itself.

That’s not to say I don’t think the whole system is inherently flawed. The pressure that builds up towards a single fortnight is shocking, especially in light of the fact that within 2 or 3 years it’s all but meaningless!

In my own example, maybe some form of continuous assessment would have driven me to study for three nights before each assessment instead of just three nights for the one exam!

Irish Independent

That’s not decline, that’s the system. It has failure built into it. This is not acceptable.

This is not acceptable to have 80% of the population at one point in their lives be told systematically you are less than good and even a failure.

For this point alone the system deserves to be trashed.

Perhaps my point is not explained clearly, excuse the following trite example but I think it works to illustrate the point.

So you have a medical complaint. You go to a Doctor.
You want to watch great football you follow Roy keans career (please its just an example I am not footie expert!)

Lets do this through the lens of the Irish educational system

So you have a medical Complaint. You ask Roy Keane for his professional advice.
You want to watch great football, so you call into your local doctor and hand him a football and ask him to play the beautiful game.

Should was Leonardo Di Vinci have been asked to sit Leaving Cert Irish (H) maybe he would have gotten exemption being a nonnational.
Should Einstein studied Bis Com paper (H) before he started fucking about with the Universe?

SO you agree. That’s good.

An interesting point. It just shows you that the system forced you into this silly unnatural way and you instinctually repulsed by it, thus you studied only to the bear minimum at the last minute. I was exactly the same and dare I say so where that 80% all exactly the same in that respect.

Heres a thing, what do you like doing, particularly when you where a child, when were you happy. What was it that made you happiest when you were doing it you might not haven known then but think of the calm a joyu it might have brought you? Is there anything?

Janey I wasn’t far off the mark with my guess. I suppose its the same as “80 of your customers are 20% of your business and 20% of your customers are 80% of business”. Gas!

13 years to see a 12.1% increase of students hitting more than 450 points. Thats a average 0.9% gain each year.

At a cost of How many Billions to the Tax Payer so a few thousand can do well but tens of thousands ar marked for heap!

BTW cna anyone get figures for spending on educaiton for this year mayb ena dthe last 10 even? I looked at CSO but I didn’t find anything.

Just on that point - I dont know about the points system but there is a scarcity of opportunities. We cant all be doctors. If we could all enter any course we wanted after secondary regardless we would just end up with more bills for 3rd level and too many graduates making degrees worth less and less, which I suspect has already happened. I have heard conflicting anecdotes on this but one comment I have heard a few times is that a degree is the new leaving cert. I suppose its true for some jobs/careers.

Our economy just isnt diverse enough.

Perhaps, but there should certainly be more qualified people than there are jobs. There are far too many closed shops in the various professions in ireland.

See, there are so many problems in this system that the system cannot fix them casue it is itself the problem.

Lads you are drawing this tantilizingly close to something TUG proposed, having at least 60% stop working! Souds nuts, but its the begining of solving the problem. Its much espused approach Buky Fuller and in my mind simple prgamatic management of resources.

It is generally brought under the fuller (no pun intended) understanding gof what PLAY really is, how we shouldn’t deny it and get on with it. Play.

Isn’t that what we are doing on this forum?

100% agreed!!!

ON the bandwidth note, don’t know if this happened but sounds good