The Legal Profession- a law onto itself


#1

I don’t know if we have a dedicated thread for the Lords of the Universe (can’t find one if we do) but I thought this story was worthy to start 1 off.

Ever wondered why the recent Legal Reform bill was so watered down (60 pages+ of amendments apparently)?

Files reflect campaign by legal professions to safeguard privilege
Bar Council and Law Society determined to water down Legal Services Regulation Ac
irishtimes.com/business/econ … -1.2531520

It’s a long article but well worth a read. It really does show who rules this country.
And it probably answers the question as to how Barristers can afford to buy houses for €8m and then pump the same into it again to bring it back to it’s historical grandeur. All the time fighting a lengthy and very costly legal case against the Local County Council over rights of way.

I’ve yet to see an article from Noel Whelan on this!

The Legal Profession -so good, they beat the Troika.


#2

Thank you FreeFallin

I am delighted there is a thread on here about the legal profession.

So good they beat the Troika.

(And Ireland’s citizens.)


#3

I touched on this just over a week ago.

Here are another couple of links.
merrionstreet.ie/en/News-Roo … _Bill.html

And from 2013:

irishtimes.com/news/ireland/ … -1.1577179

Swift https://highheartlife.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/dielaughing.gif


#4

Don’t forget the unsurprising tediousness of repossessions when pursued through the courts. Is there a reason the legal system might not be too efficient in dealing with the backlog.

Also, there were anecdotes aplenty about 3-4 years ago on this site too about unofficial debt write offs for certain valued bank customers.


#5

Yeah, it’s unsurprising to me the amount of lofty letters bashing the Troika. And that it has proved legally impossible to reduce a number of quangos (all of whom need regular legal advice).


#6

Like em or hate em, each and every quango was set up for a reason. And whatever the reason was, the government of the day and the Dáil decided their functions were necessary.
I’d say that almost all of them will remain for that reason: from time to time, a couple with similar briefs can be amalgated or done away with, and occasionally one or other outlives its purpose - but otherwise they are going to remain.
If two or three are brought together but their functons are still required, a new level of bureaucracy will be set up to manage the merger - and we get something like the HSE. All the Health Boards have disappeared, but there is a new layer of officeworkers on top. Less quangos, but more bureaucrats. Job done!

Unless you believe that the answer is to privatise everything - which just means that the function will be carried out by an even less accountable body.


#7

I’m sure you’ll all have plenty of Barristers/Solicitors knocking on your door over the next 2 weeks. Ask them for their take on the recent Reform bill and see if they can keep a straight face


#8

The ‘reason’ is that quangos provide the ultimate fudge.
It allows whatever minister in charge to either avoid making difficult decisions or deflect responsibility elsewhere.

No competent minister needs a quango.

And therein lies the problem.


#9

This is rubbish. In the main quangos were set up because the civil service, due it continued use of the outmoded non specialist recruitment system, is incapable of providing the specialist information and analysis ministers now need. Relying for advice on someone recruited after the leaving cert or after a classics degree from UCD was fine in1950 but makes no sense now.


#10

It’s been said before and it’ll be said again

libertarian.co.uk/lapubs/legan/legan011.pdf

Michael Joseph is a bit out of date in some way’s but still very relevant in others.


#11

Rubbish yourself.

Numerous high end officials within the Departments are members of the Bar and Law Societies themselves.

And anyway, it is the Attorney General’s Office who are ultimately charged with providing legal advice to the Government… I assume youre not suggesting that Mr Sutherland, Mr McDowell and others of their number are incapable formulating coherent legislative interpretations…


#12

@Poacher: Outside AG and specialist positions professional legal qualifications rare in senior civil service.

Some qualified barristers, very few solicitors, and even less paying subs to either esteemed bodies.


#13

To get somewhat back on point as we already have a thread dedicated to Quangos

Does no one else find this totally GUBU…these Cowboys were practically drafting the legislation that would govern their own profession. These unelected leeches had first view of any proposals before the Cabinet even got a whiff of it.
It’s absolutely sickening…and people were saying we lost our Sovereignty when the Troika came in!!! We’d lost it long before that by the looks of it.

And Poacher makes a good point about the way Society has developed in the era of Minority rights and a Diverse Society, and how this has given the Wigged ones access to a bottomless money pit via the Taxpayer.
Just look at the millions Barristers and Solicitors are making from the Asylum process in this country
independent.ie/irish-news/co … 08349.html

So the connections between Government and the Legal Profession might explain a lot about how we got to where we are today


#14

Lawyers, unions and consultants are constant benificiaries of taxpayer largess. Billions wasted every year. But the links between those groups and the seats of power in Ireland are so large it’s hard to see them ever being reigned in. This is also why it’s crazy to have a doctor as Minister for health, or a lawyer as Minister for justice.


#15

I suspect any largesse towards one of these three groups turned very negative over last 5 years. Other two maybe not so much.


#16

Great point and great post.

Ireland is meant to be among the highest in Europe for legal fees and also the least accountable…weird since this family have an accountant in their family!

I simply cannot believe how much barristers are paid to kick immigrants out of the country. Couldn’t they at least do it for minimum wage?


#17

I’m pretty sure I’ve read that very few people are ever actually removed from the State although I could be wrong.

Another point worth noting re costs however, is that any immigration work taken against the State is covered by free legal aid, no matter how vexatious. The costs associated with this industry are huge and are footed entirely by the taxpayer.

A simple way to root out the more vexatious cases would be to simply allow the State recover costs in those cases where it’s succesful, or at least in cases where the application is quite clearly a nonsense/stalling mechanism. As it stands the systems a joke


#18

There must be a few Noel Brownes out there, willing to put the common good first. Ditto for the lawyers.


#19

irishtimes.com/opinion/diar … 4300009037
Diarmuid Ferriter

zinger!


#20

Is there any analysis of the Irish legal industry that compares costs to countries like Canada and the UK? As far as I can see, a lot more prosecutions in Canada are conducted by salaried employees than would be the case in Ireland and nobody seems concerned about the quality of the product.