The Mansfield saga

[Puck_may_be_Famous]

According to today’s News of the Screws mansfield junior is facing charges for driving while disqualifed. Stopped three weeks ago by the gardai. Could get jail time. Sorry, no link.

[BoyRacer]

@Puck may be Famous

According to today’s News of the Screws mansfield junior is facing charges for driving while disqualifed. Stopped three weeks ago by the gardai. Could get jail time. Sorry, no link.

Mansfield drops his drink-driving appeal → herald.ie/national-news/cour … 30318.html
Andrew Phelan, Monday November 22 2010

Looks like Jimmy’s dad is too sick to turn up in court for his own reading test…

Former manager pursues Mansfields for costs → independent.ie/national-news … 34727.html
Tim Healy, Thursday November 25 2010

Ill Mansfield ordered to testify in case over unpaid legal costs → independent.ie/national-news … 61064.html
Tim Healy, Wednesday December 15 2010

[Puck_may_be_Famous]

Hi boyracer.

These are new charges. He was driving while disqualified as a result of the case that you linked to.

He would not have had a valid licence and could not have been insured.

[The_Naked_Chef]

@Puck may be Famous

Hi boyracer.

These are new charges. He was driving while disqualified as a result of the case that you linked to.

He would not have had a valid licence and could not have been insured.

He also doesnt care. He is a dick.

[mr_anderson]

Mansfield family not liable for company’s debts, creditors told

THE MANSFIELD family, owners of the Citywest hotel complex in Saggart, Co Dublin, do not have to stand behind the debts of their collapsed business because of the use of companies based in the Isle of Man, creditors were told yesterday.
…
Unsecured creditors, many of them small traders, are owed €37.7 million. According to the group’s statement of affairs, there will be only €6.4 million available for them and this is dependent on €120 million being raised by selling the premises.

The Mansfield family has given personal guarantees to the banks over any amounts left outstanding once the assets have been disposed.

irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2011/0108/1224287042543.html

Remind me to set up a company in the Isle of Man should the need arise.

[What_Goes_Up]

independent.ie/national-news … 88666.html

Top golfer among losers after Citywest goes into liquidation
Saturday January 08 2011
By Donal O’Donovan

BUSINESSMAN Jim Mansfield’s Citywest empire was in ruins last night after his company went into liquidation leaving a trail of debts totalling €192m.

Several high-profile figures, including one of the country’s best-known golfers Christy O’Connor Jnr, are owed money by the wealthy businessman.

More than 400 companies, among them the law firm originally set up by top solicitor and property developer Noel Smyth, are also owed large sums.

Some creditors said they were now faced with the prospect of going out of business.

Significantly, Mr Mansfield will not be personally liable for the debts thanks to the complicated corporate structure of his business.

…(cont’d)

[dowtchaboy]

I see Swift Concepts Ltd, of Saggart, owed €24M, are listed for strike-off by the Companies Office. Wonder who the directors are?

[coolant]

@mr_anderson

Mansfield family not liable for company’s debts, creditors told

THE MANSFIELD family, owners of the Citywest hotel complex in Saggart, Co Dublin, do not have to stand behind the debts of their collapsed business because of the use of companies based in the Isle of Man, creditors were told yesterday.
…
Unsecured creditors, many of them small traders, are owed €37.7 million. According to the group’s statement of affairs, there will be only €6.4 million available for them and this is dependent on €120 million being raised by selling the premises.

The Mansfield family has given personal guarantees to the banks over any amounts left outstanding once the assets have been disposed.

irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2011/0108/1224287042543.html

Remind me to set up a company in the Isle of Man should the need arise.

“HSS Ltd, is an unlimited company. However, HSS is in turn owned by Park Associated, a limited company based in the Isle of Man. This means creditors have no right to demand repayment from the Mansfield family.” (independent.ie/national-news … 88666.html)

I wonder will more people exploit this legal loophole now?

[yoganmahew]

@coolant

I wonder will more people exploit this legal loophole now?

I would have thought that it would be relatively easy to break this loophole. That unlimited liability companies do not extend beyond the state’s borders, no?

[baeooddu]

Why is his use of a company to protect his personal assets an issue? Yes, they placed a company in the Isle of Man and used unlimited here, but most directors/CEOs of businesses are not personally liable for the debts of a company (ignoring personal guarantees for loans). Whether he should pay the money if he can afford to out of a moral obligation is a different question, but I would almost consider it reckless to not set up a company to protect personal assets.

Or am I missing something?

[yoganmahew]

@baeooddu

Or am I missing something?

Yeah.

No accounts had to be filed. We don’t know for how long the company has been bust. In the meantime, credit was still being advanced to Citywest by creditors (either in the form of services or goods).

The suspicion will be that the unlimited company was looted by the limited company outside the jurisdiction through unrealistic salaries and dividends paid to de family.

[ewd3]

@yoganmahew

@baeooddu

Or am I missing something?

Yeah.

No accounts had to be filed. We don’t know for how long the company has been bust. In the meantime, credit was still being advanced to Citywest by creditors (either in the form of services or goods).

The **suspicion **will be that the unlimited company was looted by the limited company outside the jurisdiction through unrealistic salaries and dividends paid to de family.

Very charitable

[The_Naked_Chef]

I have said it before and again. Enronesque.

[ewd3]

I can hear it now

Sure why would you be worried about credit , sure the company is unlimited liability!!! And I’m loaded !!!

[What_Goes_Up]

Jim Mansfield’s son Tony, who is a director of the company, read out a prepared statement at the meeting, expressing the company’s great regret at having to appoint a liquidator.

****Just got this leaked version of the statement…

Seems the whole family is educationally challenged!****

[Puck_may_be_Famous]

What a classic WGU!

[Puck_may_be_Famous]

@ewd3

@yoganmahew

@baeooddu

Or am I missing something?

Yeah.

No accounts had to be filed. We don’t know for how long the company has been bust. In the meantime, credit was still being advanced to Citywest by creditors (either in the form of services or goods).

The **suspicion **will be that the unlimited company was looted by the limited company outside the jurisdiction through unrealistic salaries and dividends paid to de family.

Very charitable

Here’s your first indication of how money was funneled back to the family at the expense of other creditors

Creditors were told that no directors’ loans were outstanding in 2010 when the business was put into receivership but that there had been directors’ loans of up to €1m outstanding in 2009.

independent.ie/national-news … 88666.html

[yoganmahew]

@Puck may be Famous

Here’s your first indication of how money was funneled back to the family at the expense of other creditors

Creditors were told that no directors’ loans were outstanding in 2010 when the business was put into receivership but that there had been directors’ loans of up to €1m outstanding in 2009.

independent.ie/national-news … 88666.html

This director’s loans thing is madness. When I worked in the UK, I had a ltd. co. Being young and not with it, I spent money hand over fist in the first year. My accountant put me straight in the first year accounts that the Inland Revenue would see that as salary and tax and penalise (for late payment) if I didn’t pay it back PDQ.

What on earth are the Revenue doing allowing every tom-dick-and-harry company (never mind the banks) to provide directors’ loans? Was there interest paid? Was that taxed as profit? Is it an offence to conceal a director’s loan?

See an example here for UK rules on directors’ loans: accountingweb.co.uk/item/133663

[Alusuisse]

@yoganmahew

@Puck may be Famous

Here’s your first indication of how money was funneled back to the family at the expense of other creditors

Creditors were told that no directors’ loans were outstanding in 2010 when the business was put into receivership but that there had been directors’ loans of up to €1m outstanding in 2009.

independent.ie/national-news … 88666.html
This director’s loans thing is madness. When I worked in the UK, I had a ltd. co. Being young and not with it, I spent money hand over fist in the first year. My accountant put me straight in the first year accounts that the Inland Revenue would see that as salary and tax and penalise (for late payment) if I didn’t pay it back PDQ.

What on earth are the Revenue doing allowing every tom-dick-and-harry company (never mind the banks) to provide directors’ loans? Was there interest paid? Was that taxed as profit? Is it an offence to conceal a director’s loan?

**See an example here for UK rules on directors’ loans: **https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/item/133663

Ah musha Mr Yoganmayhew ,would you ever give over with them oul comparisons outa dat …

The Mansfield Clan,and the other ancient Celtic merchants,didnt endure 700 years of Imperialist domination just so as you can lep up now and point a quivering finger in the direction of Her Majestys Inland Revenue or Customs or whatever…and anyway,suren hasnt oul Jimmy hisself already given Her Majestys lackies a black-eye over the Falkland Islands machinery…Erin go bra as they might say in Chelsea !!!

[BoyRacer]

Bullish Mansfield believes jewel of property empire ‘can be saved’ - RONALD QUINLAN → independent.ie/national-news … 89466.html

More than 100 creditors turned up at Citywest Hotel, once the hub of the Mansfield empire, for a meeting on the fate of the business on Friday morning. They are amongst 400 companies and individuals who are owed money, ranging from a solicitor’s firm to food companies and the golfer, Christy O’Connor Junior, who is owed €1.4 m. The unsecured creditors are owed €37m, most of them smaller businesses, many of them suppliers to the hotel. The company’s larger creditors include Bank of Scotland Ireland, the Irish Nationwide Building Society, which is owed €11.3m, and a local building contractor, Swift Concepts, which is owed €23m. George Maloney, of BakerTilly Ryan Glennon, was appointed liquidator.

Commenting on his feelings on what had happened to his business and economy generally, the former billionaire said: "How do I feel? Well, I suppose there’s a fierce downturn in the economy, and everyone is getting an awful doing, the bankers. Who do I think caused it? It was caused by various people and I better not say who. But what do I feel? I feel it’s very wrong the way the whole thing went and the way it was let go. There’s no bank that can do anything for anybody at the minute because the amount of property we have. But those properties can only be marketed right by ourselves, because if you put someone in who doesn’t know the area, he won’t get the potential that I see.

“And I have the bloody oul’ illness that’s not going to get any better. I’ve been told that clearly, so I have to get the lads [my sons] into this thing properly so we can get this thing going, because the convention centre is the root of the whole thing up here [in Citywest].** I know they have a lovely one down in the docks, but they have no bedrooms on site, so someone else is getting the money. The only money you earn from a convention centre is from the bedrooms. That’s my belief.”**

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