The Quinn Collapse


#1601

Avoidance is legal, evasion is illegal, morality is individual.


#1602

what he doesn’t pay the rest of us have to pay.

so is morality individual or should it be a collective conversation?

your morality impacts me. mine impacts you.

you don’t exist in your own little bubble.


#1603

Ive been around in circles before with people on this point, not going there again, people will use all sorts of words they dont really undersand to justify positions in life they adopt. Live with your decisions I will live with mine. We cant both be right and Im not interested in agreeing to disagree.

To some degree I blame the rugby culture … after all its a game that encourages cheating and an omerta and ones expected to encourages their team mates to steal a yard, drift offside , put an unfair hand in the till and still back them to the hilt in comments off the field… a bit like how some people see the tax system .

Meanwhile back at the ranch the prudent quinns havent done anything illegal in Russia and I hear Sean Jr was encuraging Sean Sr to eat more fibre…


#1604

:smiley:
You’ve been around in circles because you are wrong!

Do you claim your bins tax refund? Avoidance.
Do you claim medical costs? Avoidance.
Do you claim MIR? Avoidance.
Do you take cash payments and not declare them as incoming? Evasion.
Do you construct tax shelters that may or may not be legal? The Revenue get to decide whether it is avoidance or evasion…


#1605

I thought the first three fell under the label of “efficiency”, rather than “avoidance”

Tax Efficiency: Using legal methods sanctioned by the government to reduce your bill.
Tax Avoidance: Using legal loopholes, not intended by the government, but present because of clumsily written regulation.
Tax Evasion: Failing to pay, or otherwise reducing your bill by means that are clearly illegal.


#1606

The emergency IBRC Act rushed through last night puts a stay on all litigation against the bank and specifically affects people’s property rights.

If I have this straight, IBRC an insolvent company, was allowed to enforce contracts which the Quinn family say are illegal before their legality was decided upon. The Quinn’s counterclaim against IBRC is now frozen. They cannot even progress same to allow themselves to be deemed unsecured creditors for the amount in question?

Is that correct? Did IBRC enforce the loan or did it merely freeze the Quinn family’s assets in which case the assets are theirs until seized?


#1607

It’s a good point, because when I look and listen to the Quinns, I immediately think…Rugby stock! So obv.


#1608

Tax efficiency normally concerns the substitution of one instrument/method by another to minimize tax liability. For example, you might change a business from a sole trader to a limited company because the latter is more tax efficient.
For me, using legal methods to reduce your tax bill is just ‘tax minimization’. I’d agree that ‘avoidance’ has some legal loophole aspect to it - avoidance is going to extraordinary but legal measures in order to not pay tax; it’s not simply applying your correct allowances to minimize your liability. There are questions of morality when considering tax avoidance.

On preview: Sean Quinn Jnr has never lived up to the promise his father showed at scrum-half.


#1609

Insert joke re Aoife/Hooker/Cash/etc


#1610

wait, wasn’t Peter Quinn president of, loike, the IRFU?

sorry, must have been thinking of someone else :unamused:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Quinn_(GAA_President


#1611

"Back when the euro was being planned in the mid-1990s, it never occurred to anyone that cautious, stodgy banks like AIB and Bank of Ireland, run by faintly dim former rugby players, could ever borrow tens of billions overseas, and lose it all on dodgy property loans. " … it wasnt me that said that …
Meanwhile as we waste resources debating this point I hear the Quinns are getting more prudent and legal by the minute… encouraging signs some would say.
I also heard David Beckham got two new tattoos , they say minimisation and avoidance in Chinese


#1612

The rugby players got pushed aside. Too old school, not driving enough. The wide-boys took charge. Golf, I reckon…


#1613

ah well, Q. E. feckin’ D. :unamused:

“We waste precious resources” - sorry dude, you’re certainly not a precious resource, especially when you consider a glib passing reference as some sort of irrefutable evidence


#1614

irishtimes.com/newspaper/bre … ing29.html

Quinns concerned over IBRC Act


#1615

The deadly provisions for the Quinn family:


#1616

Quinn son misses mortgage payments on IBRC closure -> independent.ie/business/iris … 93712.html


#1617

This has to be one of the most misleading headlines yet.

On his home, which KBC have appointed a receiver to, he had an INBS mortgage which was affected by IBRC closure, unlikely unless Michael Lynn did the conveyancy?

Quinn family accounts were frozen by court order, nothing to do with closure, they still get 30K a month to live on.
They also received over 3 million in unknown payments last year.

But they can’t pay their mortgages for how many years now?


#1618

That story in the indo and another in the Irish Times suggest that the Quinns are applying to get the freezing order lifted and that they have every chance of success. The main issue may be whether the IBRC Liquidator can off-load the Quinn Loans to NAMA before Monday so that NAMA can step into IBRC’s shoes on the undertaking. This is a big moment in the saga.


#1619

You can say that about any sport. Soccer, hurling, gaelic football etc. Like most things these days, sport does not seem to be about fairness and sportsmanship but more about fouling, cheating, violence…


#1620

The Quinn progeny are about to make off with their hundreds of millions of euros and the 'pin heads are sidetracked with a debate over GAA -v Rugby -v- Soccer culture??

FFS - sport really is the greatest invention for keeping the stupid masses distracted!!