The Social Housing Costs Thread


#41

Maybe as part of the tax payer collective.


#42

Yes but that figure apparently excludes land, labour, professional fees and any development levies payable i.e. It is the cost of raw materials


#43

350k for 5 houses. Then the council is buying one back at cost, so the private person is paying 280k and getting a house for their own private use. Is there any mention of where this is? If the local authority is contributing the site and excluding development levies, that’s quite a state contribution. Re the units that are used for social housing, is there being rent paid on these? If so, who is it being paid to? I’d hope that it’s the local authority that is getting it and not the person who has made the 280k investment and already benefitted to the tune of a property for themselves…


#44

€70k materials in a 900sqft house? Christ-almighty. Your experience is obviously limited to building your ivory tower.

“€20k for cake and fine wine! More cake!”


#45

What makes you think the houses in this proposed scheme are only 900 sq ft?

Regardless any update on his progress - the first families should be moving in shortly

Or perhaps nothing has happened due to a shortage of unemployed builders :slight_smile:


#46

246k per rapid build house…put that in ye’re pipes and smoke them!!!

Funding approved for 83 new houses to address homeless crisis
Coveney approved funding of €20.4 million for the projects.
thejournal.ie/firhouse-clond … 2-Jan2017/


#47

Maybe we need to advertise these contracts a bit wider? Maybe remove a couple of layers of parasites from the process?

jewson.co.uk/working-with-yo … alculator/

75% of those costs for terraced housing.


#48

Woh - those are cheap prices

Have they built any houses in Ireland?

Oh yes they are based in England and don’t build houses :slight_smile:

There is an article in the Irish Times today on “how to beat fake news and faulty statistics”


#49

Actual relevant information.

Housing development: the economics of
small sites – the effect of project size on the cost of housing construction
, - BCIS

It costs 67% more to build a single dwelling on it’s own that it does to build a single dwelling as part of a large development in excess of 10 units. Further savings on larger developments.


#50

This is interesting. From a PQ response late last year:

*Clare Daly (Dublin Fingal, United Left)
267. To ask the Minister for Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government if he will provide data (details supplied) on the projected cost of construction of social housing, excluding in all cases the cost of land procurement. [37043/16]

In relation to information sought for averages of various social housing costs, the following are the relevant figures based on current unit cost ceiling data prepared from tender returns utilised within my Department.
**- average cost per square meter of social housing construction in Dublin = €2,046;

  • average cost per square meter of social housing construction outside of Dublin= €1,524.**
    The average cost of construction of various housing units including all works within the site curtilage and a contribution towards development of common areas of the overall development (footpaths, roads, lighting etc), are as follows:
  • 2-bed social housing unit in Dublin = €191,850;
  • 2-bed social housing unit outside of Dublin= €141,445;
  • 3-bed social housing unit in Dublin= €205,250;
  • 3-bed social housing unit outside of Dublin = €154,560.*

#51

It is interesting. So interesting that you responded to it already :slight_smile:


#52

The beatings will continue until morale improves :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:


#53

Given that our government have blindly followed the failed Thatcherite policies this is very relevant.

Britain’s housing crisis could be solved – if only the government wanted to, - The Guardian.


#54

*Up to 1,300 social housing units are set to delivered in Cork City in the coming months under a fast-track approach to address the city’s social housing demand.

Housing Minister Simon Coveney confirmed yesterday that more than 400 homes will be under construction by May on 18 sites across the city as part of a €97m investment in social housing,*

irishexaminer.com/ireland/1300-social-housing-units-for-cork-443421.html

The piece later mentions 437 units, so €225k per unit.

*Later, Mr Coveney turned the sod on a social housing project in Deanrock before launching a reconstruction project which will see 10 new homes for older people provided in Dublin St, Blackpool, by Respond!

The €2.15m project will see five one-bed and five two-bed homes built by January.*

€215k per unit, or €143k per bedroom.


#55

All those developments are in the range of 10-25 units each. That’ll keep the price up alright, particularly design and professional fees, margin, etc… We need green field sites of 1000+ units.


#56

A builder who could build 1000 houses in one go in one site could get massive savings due to the scale.

But there isn’t any builder in the country who builds at that scale.

There’s zero chance of a smaller builder getting such a contract. The tender would require they’ve already completed similar projects and have a couple hundred million in financing.

In reality for 1000 units in Ireland you’re looking at a phased development and the costs go up.

Any builder with sense tendering for a council job would be charging a premium as they’d expect delays due to lack of decisions, more hassle, more rework, inability to get the customer to swallow unexpected costs. Having just one customer isn’t necessarily a good thing for a builder as they can’t do their usual bullying.


#57

Any non-Irish company will have to pay Irish pay rates. If they bring in workers that will be expensive as they’d have transport and housing costs on top. Also they’ll have to deal with Irish trade unions who won’t be pleased. Remember GAMA?

If they tender on the project based on hiring local labour - and that will be hundreds if not thousands of staff, then they’re being reckless to tie themselves up in a contract to build cheap homes, because those staff are already in demand and will be expensive.

In reality if the government were to seriously go about building a 1000 unit non-phased development it’s likely they’d need to pay a premium over a more typically sized Irish development.


#58

I am sure there are *some *economies of scale in house building but I am not that convinced they are huge. Please point me to evidence here folks.

Perhaps on the land acquisition and planning side? Planning a development seems to account for a big share of cost these days and a 50-unit development is probably not much more complicated or time-consuming than a 20-unit one.

I guess labourers get familiar with identical semi-Ds and the 20th is faster than the first, but by how much? Concrete still takes as long to pour and laying blocks is still laying blocks.

Also, the building supplies market is very concentrated in Ireland. Coming with a bulk purchase to a supplier who has very little effective competition will not see you walking away with much lower unit prices.


#59

Ten 3 bed houses in Ballinasloe costs €1.7m
connachttribune.ie/residents-cam … using-300/


#60

I wonder how much of that goes on having to fight the sort of ‘major planning battles’ mentioned in the articles…