The Social Housing Costs Thread


#141

HAP replaces RAS. So you’d need to add the 2 together for 2014


#142

@FreeFallin
Thanks. I found much better data for 2014 in this report (“Analysis of Current Expenditure on Housing Supports”) from Dept of Public Expenditure and Reform.

per.gov.ie/wp-content/uploads/Current-Expenditure-on-Housing-Supports.pdf

Figures on page 12.


#143

Plans for Fishamble Street abandoned after the costs came in a bit north of what they expected!
irishtimes.com/news/social- … -1.3783193

It’s a whole other debate about how social housing in the city centre is being given to homeless families, the majority of whom I would presume are not in paid employment. While thousands of commuters travel for hours to and from Dublin to get to work, passing by these apartments!


#144

If you draw a circle with a 1km radius around Grand Canal Dock you will probably catch 1% of Ireland’s population but 5% of its jobs.

It’s very hard to justify more social housing there, given how many people are commuting from long distances.


#145

Not if the people in social housing is the pool from which you fish for votes!


#146

Almost €700 million paid to private landlords in rent subsidies last year
thejournal.ie/housing-priva … 8-Feb2019/


#147

The current [RTE *Week In Politics * (https://www.rte.ie/news/player/the-week-in-politics/) has a section on housing with Eoghan Murphy (FG), Joan Burton (Lab), and David Cullinane (SF). Some interesting points made about social housing needing to be built on State-owned land as developers are engaging in land speculation and hoarding all over again. Descends into the usual slanging match, but Joan B gets in the dig that so-called “affordable” housing in Dublin 15 starts at €500k.


#148

Couple removed from social housing list resolve dispute with Dublin council
Woman who bought €2,000 flat in Latvia to be placed on list under resolution of court case
irishtimes.com/news/crime-a … -1.3806181

God bless the good ship ‘Irish Taxpayer’ and all that sail freely on her


#149

Pedantry alert! It’s unlikely her name is Miroslav, as that’s a bloke. Could be Miroslava. And there’s no way Sergeys’ surname is Kuznecova as that’s a girl. He’s probably Kuznecovis. Else there’s some funny business going on.


#150

I did a double take on the first names reading it too and though to my self that I doubted they were a same sex couple :laughing:


#151

irishtimes.com/news/politic … -1.3806162
not sure which is more infuriating…


#152

Turns out renovation is as expensive as new build in some cases.

Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council spent more than €200,000 refurbishing one void housing unit in Sandycove last year.

That’s about €84k per unit.


#153

Social Housing in the Irish Housing Market

https://www.esr.ie/article/view/1123/216

Abstract

This paper traces the evolution of social supports for housing since 2004, including local authority (LA) housing, housing provided by Approved Housing Bodies (AHB) and support for renting in the private sector through schemes administered by the local government sector (Rental Accommodation Scheme (RAS) and the Housing Assistance Payment (HAP)) and the Rent Supplement scheme operated by the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection.

Given the increased use of the private sector to provide housing for low-income households, the paper draws on SILC data to examine changes between 2004 and 2015 in the quality of housing in different sectors, as measured by problems such as dampness, lack of central heating, lack of double glazing, insufficient light and noise.

The analysis finds that the overall percentage of housing that is socially supported increased during the recession to 17 per cent from 13 per cent in the boom years (2004-2007, mainly via increased use of Rent Supplement) but dropped back towards pre-recession levels by 2015 (about 15 per cent).

The use of the private sector as a source of socially-supported housing rose from 28 per cent in the boom years to 42 per cent during the recession before dropping back to 33 per cent by 2016.

Housing quality improved between 2004 and 2015, with a drop from 16 per cent to 9 per cent in the percentage of people living in dwellings with two or more of five quality problems; the improvements were significantly greater for those living in rented than owned/mortgaged dwellings, though rented dwellings remained at a disadvantage in 2015. Improvements in quality in the rented sector were found across the income distribution.


#154

Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council paid more than €5 million for a development of 14 apartments and houses in Monkstown. The average price of the homes acquired was €406,000. Six of the units are one-bedroom apartments.


#155

Bananas.


#156

AFAIK the historical average price-to-rent ratio is 14.5 - 15.

(€406,000/15)/12= €2255.55 projected rent per month

If we accept that rental expenditure should be no more than 30% of income.
(€2255.55/3)*10 = €90222 (that’s @ 30%)

The people living in these properties should have salary income of €90222. (if you believe it’s fair value)

Average salary in 2019 is €38,878

[If it’s not fair value. Guess who will pay the difference?]


#157

We all know that the problem in the housing market, and especially the rental market, is a lack of supply. That won’t stop our politicans adding to the demand side by outbidding private investors. In this case, the local Council failed in its effort to grab a new apartment block in Dundrum so it has come up with an offer for private investors:

The plan’s key selling point, according to the prospectus, is that it will provide the buyer of Herbert Hill the guarantee of a 25-year stream of rental income, linked to inflation and underpinned by what it describes as a “quasi-government backed tenancy covenant” from Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council.

Davy spells it out for its investors:

With Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council committing to rent all 90 units at the scheme, the owner of Herbert Hill would never have to face the losses associated with vacancies or the costs associated with re-letting.

The council’s interest in securing the apartments at Herbert Hill is put in context in the Davy document with a reference to demand for social housing being a “key area of political pressure” and a “high-profile issue of public interest”.

The report omits the key numbers: price and rental yield. Presumably, those are still being negotiated i.e. the developer will up their prices now that the Council is offering a big, fat carrot to potential purchasers. Putting the story in the public domain means the Council can’t back out now.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/south-dublin-council-targets-luxury-scheme-for-social-housing-1.3926235


#158

Has everyone gone mad! That hair brained idea would see the taxpayer footing bills like this for 25 years

This is insanity


#159

So a council tenant will pay typically €300-€400 monthly rent for a luxury apartment in the middle of Dundrum? Nice if you can get it.


#160

Here’s more of it. https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/housing-charity-to-pay-3m-for-conor-mcgregors-social-housing-development-38222706.html For the media this story is all about Conor McGregor. No one asks why the housing charity is simply out-bidding private buyers for housing that was about to go on the market rather than actually adding to the supply of houses.

I love the bit where they ask the Council whether there is a need for social housing in Santry. Having just returned from the first manned space flight to Jupiter, they just needed to be sure!