Are you saying that makes waste in Education sector right? Or are you merely using it as another example of waste which should be gotten rid of?
Yep, the admin depts are living high on the hog alright - an admin officer can earn up to c70k. Which to put it in perspective is higher than some of the lecturer scales.
Interesting pioint. It is interesting to see if you live in another country to compare with other coutries one has lived in.
Example of commerce/business universty graduate.
E.g. during 6 years in secondary school a student (that thereafter is going to university) in ireland gets one year (!) less education than its peers in the Netherlands. This is caused by the difference in number of holidays during that 6 year period. And though no expert on it, I do wonder what the transition year does in terms of academic preparation of the student…
On top of that you have 3 year university courses in Ireland (Holland 4 years). Again the academic year in ireland is about 2 months shorter a year than it is in Holland.
So upon leaving university, the graduate in Ireland received 2,5 years less education than its peers in holland.
I always wonder about that. maybe it does not impact ones individual ability/skillset to function in a company. But overall on a country level I would be inclined to say that it does not give Ireland a cutting edge.
I don’t think it matters a damn really compared with all the other factors. Back in the mists of time when I was in school, I did the Inter Cert in 4th year, & then only had 2 years to study for the leaving, didn’t make any odds.
What I’d like to see is a gap between doing the leaving, & actually starting the serious work of college. I think if the students were a bit maturer when they started college, we’d see less dropping out in 1st year, & less churn between courses, because in theory the student would take advantage of the gap from the pressure of the leaving to stand & think about what they were going to spend the next few years studying for.
If I’m working it out right, the top pay rate for a secondary school principal is E107,982.
No I’m not saying it makes waste in Education right. These numbers are so extraordinary, I just threw the Medicine comment in there because I reckon if their salaries were published (to include private income on public time), the public would be in REAL shock (considering how hard it is to access these people - a years wait for a dermatologist?).
I just wonder where the yardstick is to judge what someone should earn? There doesn’t seem to be one. So many people resent what others earn nowadays. What’s a fair wage (to allow for the high cost of living in Ireland) for a lecturer or a Consultant compared to a secondary school teacher or a nurse?
This just in, TUI has not accepted Croke Park agreement
what fucking planet etc
You were doing so well until then.
Cause and eh, fucked…
FWIW, I was lectured by one of the people at number 31 on the list, in electronic engineering and he is a very smart guy, and dedicated too.
You think you’ll be able to attract lecturers to this godforsaken island by offering salaries that don’t take the high cost of living into account? Or is it that you think Ireland produces enough high-quality PhDs to fill those slots and that they’ll be willing to take a “home town discount”? Or is it that you think it just doesn’t matter who does such jobs?
My view is not that we have high prices because lecturers and teachers and nurses are paid too much. For that to be the case, given that they are paid by the state, it would have to have resulted in excessively high taxation rates, particularly corporate taxation, which is manifestly not the case. My view is that we have high prices because most goods and services are provided by private sector cartels that have no interest in competing with one another while we have a government that takes just the sort of hands-off attitude to those cartels that many pinsters advocate.
In any case, nothing I’ve written here or elsewhere should be taken to suggest that I think that the pay of these administrators (for that is what, to a man, they are) is anything other than scandalous. Ireland does have to compete internationally for lecturing talent. It doesn’t have to compete at all for administrators such as those on the list. The proof? Almost none of them came to Ireland from abroad.
Well, at some stage we are going to have to figure out why the cost of living here is so much higher than even our nearest neighbours.
Part of it, in my view, is that comparative wage competition is driving costs. Not so much comparisons with external peers, but with a perceived hierarchy within Ireland. I don’t accept the view that hiding behind nurses and entry level teachers is appropriate. It is the senior levels of pretty much all professions that I see this in and for this I blame a mistaken notion of seniority as naturally leading to higher levels of pay, rather than the job that is being performed. As a result we see administrative pay rates (across all sectors) priced more highly than technical pay rates. So we see high marginal costs for the administrative aspects of jobs and low marginal costs for technical ability.
The property bubble distorted this to an extraordinary extent to the point where manual labourers earned huge sums. The building professions jacked up their rates based on this too. Just because it happened there, though, is no reason to see it continue across the rest of the economy.
You’re not familiar then with the views of Seanie on the value of college graduates. Seanie prided himself on hiring as few university types as possible. Like you, he was openly contemptuous of the value of their education. Thought they lacked the common touch.
Nah, this guy.
Used to lecture in electronic eng in UCD.
Have we ever advertised lecturers positions on the international scene?
It seems to me that all the cartels operate in the public sphere.
Of course. All such posts are advertised internationally.
They may be advertised, but the selection process is full of nepotism.
Sure is - gave up applying for posts/panels/anything at CIT and UCC - utter waste of paper, time, energy. CIT don’t even ack receipt of applications any more. It’s absolutely who you know…
Of course, all posts are advertised through various job databases, often there are more international applicants (last post I had info on there were no Irish candidates shortlisted).
Dead right, some institutions are very bad for this kind of thing. Mad things have gone on at times (jobs given to non-PhDs over PhDs, lecturers mysteriously appearing in departments, contracts turned into permanent posts etc.). Of course, none of this matters much any more as there is so little hiring!