The Unaffordable Welfare State


#348

Lovely :unamused:


#349

:unamused: Wow, care to enlighten us as to why large numbers of Arican immigrants are beneficial and should be welcomed into the EU or do you just abuse people for having an opinion?


#350

I abuse people for being racists and, particularly, for expressing racist views on the day after 9 people were murdered in cold blood by (yet) another racist.

The question about “large numbers” of African immigrants is of no relevance. But since you mention it: do you think the US viewed large numbers of Irish immigrants as “beneficial”?


#351

Wow


#352

This thread has taken a turn for the worse


#353

My point is you didn’t attempt to engage in argument or raise counter points instead you attacked the poster and then slandered him/her. Define the word racist and why you think the poster was being racist. Are the future demographics of of the EU something we are allowed to discuss?

I think the world would be better off if we had left the indigenous people of the Americas continue their existence in peace and not colonised those countries.


#354

Not playing that game: I feel under no obligation to ‘engage’ with or ‘counter’ (and thereby legitimise) racist discourse. It is sufficient to point it out and call it what it is. I also won’t debate such burning questions as whether Jews are really subhuman or whether the Irish are genetically lazy and dishonest.

Still: do you think the US viewed large numbers of Irish immigrants (many of whom were illegal and most of whom were unskilled) as “beneficial”? The time period during for this question would be since the founding of the US as an independent nation in 1776 or so.


#355

his post was anti-libertarian, not racist.


#356

The question of large numbers of immigrants arriving suddenly into the EU from mainly third-world countries is, of course entirely relevant when discussing the future affordability of the Welfare State. How could it not be? Especially when such a high proportion of those migrants will come to depend on long term Welfare and other State spending such as Health, housing education etc.


#357

Like the Irish in America?


#358

So you are just going to shout racist and leave it at that. He didn’t make any claims as to the abilities or not of African immigrants as you claim. The question is, is it a good or bad thing if large numbers of Africans enter the EU offering the potential to substantially change the demographics of the continent. Is it beneficial or not?

Irish immigrants were seen as subhuman by the Americans, I am aware of the similarities. In fact most of the politics and identity of Europeans going back thousands of years was and is profoundly racist. The fall of the Roman empire resulted from the fact they wouldn’t stoop so low as to do a deal with the German tribes. I see massive racial strife in the future. It can be argued it already is happening. Human nature is unlikely to change.


#359

The “Irish” in America, past or present, is of little relevance when discussing the topic at hand.


#360

Ah, but it is, see. If you say: “the Irish were different,” then you reveal yourself to be a racist. And if you say “the Irish were no different” then you reveal yourself to be a hypocrite.


#361

I dunno, “fish in millions from Africa” sounds dehumanizing to me. Granted it’s hyperbole, but given the tone, the subtext is anti-humanitarian and disturbing.


#362

Well, the difference is the US didn’t have a welfare state to worry about when large numbers of Irish were emigrating there…


#363

Stick to the property threads Frieda, it’ll do us all good


#364

Ah well. I’ll just have to live with the fact that I’m a “racist” and probably a “hypocrite” too. (Meanwhile, back in the real world…)


#365

+1

the comparison with Irish emigrating to America or any other country in last 200 years is completely irrelevant. Irish people coming off a famine ship did not have a generous welfare system to avail of but europe has implemented such policies in the last 20 years.

with the implosion of the middle east and refugee crisis coming from that combined with the african migration crisis worsening the refugee debate within europe will become more serious. Yes we can take some refugees but to think all of Europe can cater for this wave of migration is wishful thinking.


#366

As the dragons say “I’m out”, can someone pm me when this thread gets back to normality.


#367

Here we go.

Some of John Moran’s evidence to the banking enquiry.

The state is still spending in an unaffordable manner and the welfare state is part of that discussion.