The Unaffordable Welfare State


#508

Practically everyone in this State is receiving some sort of payment from the Dept of SW. And only 200 prosecutions a year.
It’s miniscule, pathetic even


#509

I presume they calculate some kind of notional savings over the future X years.


#510

Yes but most of this is child benefit and pensions. If you took these away the majority of households would not be receiving benefits. Child benefit and pensions by their nature are quite difficult to commit fraud with.

I am not familiar with a per capita prosecutions rate for other countries. If you have them could you share?


#511

I agree. It seems excessive.

DSP also carry out and publish internal audits from time to time which show errors made in favour of clients made by their own staff.

They do not impute a ‘cost’ and trumpet it in a press release however.


#512

Savings are usually calculated as 9 months or 12 months of the payment in question - there’s a European guideline!

Savings are very notional - often someone will be on disability or jobseekers of €193 per week, they will be in breach of conditions and go onto supplementary welfare allowance of €191 (?) a week. This would be calculated as a saving of 9 months x €193 despite the reality of the situation.

Prior to Joan Burton, the claw back was €2 a week, (the difference between the full payment and Supplementary welfare allowance as Supp was defined as the minimum possible to live on). This was changed to 30% of the payment you ended up on, which at least put some sort of dent in the overpayment. There is(was) no provision to claw back wages, so if someone was working and claiming (quite common, but very easy to catch - a lot of people don’t bother signing off or sending in final cert for illness claims) their sw payment would be stopped, but no attempt would me made to reclaim an overpayment until the person started claiming again.


#514

Leo Varadkar ‘overstated’ amount saved by anti-fraud measures, Irish Examiner

Falsified figures? Exaggerated claims? I’m starting to see a bit of a pattern here. Hopefully Leo Varadkar will acknowledge the error and ensure that it won’t happen again, right?

No, that didn’t happen and it never will.


#515

Yes, that’s definitely the most important thing to take out of this omnishambles.

:unamused:


#516

What is the difference between saved and recouped? If you recoupe X that money has been saved and is there for use by the Government again. If you say you stopped people from overclaiming by an estimated figure of €500m is that a saving or a loss not continued into the future?


#518

New scheme will allow artists to avail of welfare benefits
Writers and artists to be acknowledged as self-employed and can seek jobseeker’s allowance under pilot plan
irishtimes.com/news/politics … -1.3116760


#519

So poorer working class people will be subsiding middle class artists.


#520

Poorer working class people subsidise the square root of Fuck all.

If an artist happens to be ‘middle class’ in upbringing, then it’s their brethren subsidising them.


#521

You’ve a way with words JB :laughing:


#522

Yes they do, working class people pay taxes to and poorer working classes pay taxes indirectly.

That of course is to true too but I don’t see why any of us should be subsidising these ‘artists’. If they can’t make a living from their hobby, let them get a real job like the rest of us.


#523

From that article

What? If they make money by selling work, they pay tax and accumulate entitlements, non?

Doesn’t sound like it’s going to be all that helpful. They’ll still be considered jobseekers and be subject to activation measures. Hardly worth the cost of administering such a scheme - unless there’s some other angle we’re missing. Regularise people working in the grey economy?

If you avail of the scheme and make it big, do you still get the artists’ tax exemption?


#524

Is it not all about the Artists getting an exemption from going on back-to-work FAS type schemes and the like?
Can’t have the d’arlings out for 20 hours a week cleaning rubbish in the neighbourhood or cleaning parks etc. It’ll eat into their creative time.

I doubt there’ll be a quid-pro-quo either against the generous tax break schemes they have for when they do make a few quid.


#525

For whatever it’s worth, the Journal.ie has done a ‘Fact check’ on this claim and found it to be bullshit by a factor of ten.

thejournal.ie/fact-check-leo … 5-Jun2017/

‘Leo the Liar’. Catchy.


#526

Except the article doesn’t call him that.


#527

Not sure where else to put this but I think the debate is beginning
Galway Businessman and Politician launches attack on foreign ‘freeloaders’


#528

He’s going to get hammered

He’s an Independent so all parties will probably have a go at him. I’m backing Aodhan the Righteous of the nearly departed Labour party to be first out of the blocks


#529

He’s pretty well-respected in Galway and a lot of people will agree with what he say, but privately.
NUIG snowflakes have already started whining